...to expect students and parents to take my subject seriously?

[TeacherAnonymous123]

Issue coming from another thread I posted, so thought I would ask for people's opinions.

I teach Religious Studies at a Catholic Secondary School. As it is my subject, I am clearly biased, but I believe that students learning about other religions and cultures is extremely important for their development and attitude towards the world and other people.

As it is a Catholic school, students must take RS at GCSE. Their first exam in it is tomorrow morning and some of them are still apathetic, telling me that parents have said not to bother trying as it isn't an important subject and it doesn't matter if they fail.

Obviously this leads to a battle in lesson which I cannot win as I do not have support from parents.

So parents - do you think RS is an important and relevant subject? If not, why not?

Their first exam in it is tomorrow morning and some of them are still apathetic, telling me that parents have said not to bother trying as it isn't an important subject and it doesn't matter if they fail.

Are you sure their parents are telling them exactly that though? My daughter is about to start her year 11 GCSEs and knows she’s expected to try her best, but she knows some subjects aren’t things she excels in (in her case Welsh) and also in the grand scheme of things, she doesn’t directly need to do what she wants to do longterm. It’s still important she works hard but I don’t want her making herself sick with stress about it.

FWIW she enjoys RE and I do happen to think it’s an important subject but I wouldn’t be pissed off with her if she didn’t put as much effort into that as say, biology which she will need for what she wants to do later on.

Most Kids know that it’s maths and English they need to push for because it’s a requirement for many jobs/ HE. I don’t think that it’s students aren’t bothered about subjects like RE but they just know that failing maths or English is potentially detrimental to them. There’s only a few days left so it’s only natural they’re pushing the subjects that matter the most. Most able students want to do well in all subjects.

I have reviewed my sons RS gcse Syllabus and looked at and discussed his work. It’s absolutely brilliant preparation for being a lawyer (eg arguing for and against something - death penalty, euthanasia
etc) which is what I am and what he wants to be too. Far better preparation than English and on a par with History.

I think if you chose a Catholic school for your DC because the education levels are 'better' you then can't complain they are expected to take it as a GCSE.
My colleague complained about this repeatedly and i just had to say you chose that school knowing it was a religious school and that is the expectation.
I'd personally encourage our DC and Foster C to do well/revise for all subjects. One of ours has no interest in science, wont be doing something science based but still has to sit 3 exams in it and I hope they'll do their best in their revision/exams.

I had to study it (church school) and I found it very interesting. However, I did resent it because I would have preferred to do History or German or single sciences. It was a waste of a precious spot, for me.

In terms of the real world and what will actually matter beyond school the students and the parents are completely right.

RS is compulsory because of your school policy...Maths & English are compulsory because they will be required for future employment. The kids have a limited amount of capacity for revision and they'd be better off focussing on subjects that will impact their future than RS which in fact if they fail will have absolutely no negative impact.

Also to your comments that the parents know it's a catholic school...that will be secondary to the educational offering relative to other nearby schools. Loads of people feign an interest in religion to get into a faith school if it's got a better reputation.

So, YABU in my (humble) opinion.

If you want to teach RS to a class of engaged, motivated students - teach in a school where it is elective.

“… I don’t see it as particularly important and believe religion causes more harm than good with all the hatred and wars started in the name of religion.”

No wonder you have problems op, with views as ignorant as this. They’ve already made up their mind what religion is and what it means. No need to educate themselves on it at al! 🙄

I would never send my kids to a religious school, - some people have no choice as there are no non-aligned schools within easy distance which is a disgrace. The separation of church and state is long overdue.

There is a GCSE course called Philosophy and Ethics. Probably more appropriate in the UK where there are many not at all religious people and a vocal but smaller group of highly religious ones.

For me it has equal value to history, french, music, art, geography etc. These are all option choices even if they are in some way restricted, e.g. having to take a language, in some schools.

I don’t children should be forced to take an exam in it. I think when it is a state education (vs a private) and you are forcing parents to choose between better results and kids sitting through RE vs a poorer education, you can’t be surprised that both parents and kids may be disengaged.

It’s not exactly one I’ll be drumming in that my son needs to revise for frankly.

He needs results that matter for future work and higher education and Re isn’t going to open many mainstream doors unless it’s used as a top up mark only and not because it’s worth something to his career.

Even I know with my very limited education in RE that a man wearing a turban is not Muslim and Eid is a Muslim festival! I learnt that through just living, wasn't taught it at school! I agree that a degree of RE education is good but being being taught to GCSE level is not necessary and there are more important things out there to learn. Id support History as a subject compulsory for GCSE that will teach kids about other cultures and religious context.

A "fact" that is outdated for example is one I came across when I was helping DD with an assessment on islamic beliefs is that believing in other gods is blasphemy and it is the worst sin. Not only is that statement (BBC bite size) is ridiculous (WORST sin??) it is also insulting to other religions and sounds like something from the medivieal times.

Yes, DS is doing PET for GCSE and loves it. If it had been an option for GCSE I would have been keen to take it. As it was I was at a Catholic school (not my choice) and forced to do GCSE RE which meant dropping one of the other subjects I wanted to study - History. The only year where RE was anything other than Catholicism/Christianity was in Year 9 where we briefly covered other religions and some moral/ethics stuff ( which I really enjoyed and would have loved to do more on). For GCSE it was just - Catholics believe this, Christians believe this and humanists are stupid - (no one would even admit that atheists existed) and here's an anti-abortion video for good measure. I hope GCSE RE has moved on since then - but I expect in Catholic schools it may not have.

Ignoring the subject, is it important to make an effort in all subjects/topics?

There's plenty of things I'm not interested in, think are a waste of time but have to give my full attention and effort to as part of my job and in fact general life.
🤷

It depends on the stance you take, at my DC's school their teacher was staunchly of the Christian faith and believed in God, but he apparently expected the pupils to aswell. Many pupils did not share this belief and did not respect the teacher as a result. It was unfortunate because it coloured their attitude to the whole subject.

Two of mine did RS, one through choice and one compulsory and I think it is the compulsory nature and presumably that they have not had such a wide choice of options because RS is already taking up one of them.

I would not tell them that it isn't important and they both came out with 9s but if it was a choice between revising for RS and revising for a subject they were planning to do at A level they spent more time on the A level subject.

Is this parents telling you themselves what their view is or is it the children telling you what their parents have said? Also one parent might value religious studies but they were staying at the other parent's house over the weekend who told them not to bother with it as much.

Whilst there is value in RS there is also value in Geography, History, Spanish, Biology etc. and for each child they may or may not see the value of that subject in their lives to the exclusion of a different subject.

How many free choices of GCSE do the students in your school get? Presumably ten subjects - RS, maths, English lit and English Lang, ?Three sciences, a compulsory MFL, maybe one other humanity -history/ geography. That might only leave one free choice option.

Former RS teacher (atheist) yes, it's really important for students to take part in various studies to better understand cultures/ history/ ethical bias/ power dynamics - but most parents just want their kids to get a job, not really about how theyll understand the world (not in a mean way, i think they know kids have enough pressure). BUT RS has that connection to RE which is totally unnecessary in a school environment and I'd agree with parents on that, teaching faith or how to look at religion or spirituality is what a lot of families see RS as. And, to be frank, the syllabus for most subjects is limited to a very simplistic look at religion and not enough about society and doesn't 'look' like its a place for interesting debate (with more.mature students).

I took it as a full GCSE. I am agnostic, leaning towards atheist and have no religion but am now studying it at degree level with the OU. It can give a really good insight into cultures and you need critical thinking skills which are a great life skill.

At higher level it can involve quite a lot of anthropological study too. I've learned about cargo cults and secular pilgrimages and how food linked to celebrations can become essential even to those who barely take part in a religion.

I know my gsce coursework helped develop my essay skills. I found it more interesting than History as it is stuff that occurred in the past and is happening now.

I’ve often wondered if it was renamed as “cultural studies” would more students be interested in the course.

I don't think it is all that important there are other subjects that are more important to a child life.

I'd rather see more of life skills, critical thinking, personal finance, relationships and communication.

I mean obviously if you're going to a religious based school you're going to have to study religion because that's just how it works.

I was an RE teacher in a state school and got this crap all the time.
Just counter with 'An extra GCSE is always handy.'
And ignore.

My DC both took GCSE RS and loved it even though we are not religious at all. They enjoyed the ethics side of it.
However, if they had been forced to take it I think it might have been different and I would have been pretty pissed off too but I would never send my DC to a religious school anyway

My son is being forced to take a compulsory GCSE and he is extremely apathetic about it. I agree with him. He has been taught to always respect his teachers and try his best, but the combination of poor teaching and forced learning this year has made his entire cohort completely disillusioned with the subject. To the point where a large group of them sat in one of their exams and did not open their exam papers.

While I'm not sure where I stand on this as an ex-teacher, I am a bit proud that they've taken a stand. I, nor he, care about his grade for this subject and he's predicted 8-9s in everything else. I haven't told him that, but I am. Forced learning is an easy way to push a child away from a subject.

As for RE, I don't think that religion should be in any schools these days. It's outdated, scientifically unproven and just a ridiculous concept. Faith schools should not exist in the UK today.

This completely changes my answer. If the GCSE doesn't give equal treatment to all major world religions as well as atheism, and at least an introduction to a few of the less mainstream belief systems, then I think it's a complete waste of time tbh, and of no real value.

I do think it's important for children to learn about different beliefs and cultures but it doesn't seem that the syllabus in question is really designed to do this.

We should just get rid of state-funded faith schools and end this nonsense.

YABU. I went to a catholic school and had to do RE - waste of a gcse option in my opinion. We didn’t learn about other religions and cultures, we learned Mark’s gospel front to back and upside down and wrote essay after essay about it.