...to expect students and parents to take my subject seriously?

[TeacherAnonymous123]

Issue coming from another thread I posted, so thought I would ask for people's opinions.

I teach Religious Studies at a Catholic Secondary School. As it is my subject, I am clearly biased, but I believe that students learning about other religions and cultures is extremely important for their development and attitude towards the world and other people.

As it is a Catholic school, students must take RS at GCSE. Their first exam in it is tomorrow morning and some of them are still apathetic, telling me that parents have said not to bother trying as it isn't an important subject and it doesn't matter if they fail.

Obviously this leads to a battle in lesson which I cannot win as I do not have support from parents.

So parents - do you think RS is an important and relevant subject? If not, why not?

It isn't confusing.

Reading and essay writing are already studied during an English lesson.

There is absolutely no value in wasting children's time by teaching them about religion.

Religion has never been of any benefit to society. It has caused so much harm, it should be banned.

It's a divisive subject, it teaches intolerance and hate, it encourages parents to mutilate their children and celebrates murder and torture.

Nothing good has ever come from religion.

I think a lot of people on this thread should have a deeper think about what they want out of an education system.

One poster above has said they don’t want English literature to be compulsory, which I would strongly disagree with. But I think most are happy with a random selection of fiction, but not if the books are religious.

Ultimately, most education is founded upon a bunch of skills students need (mathematical manipulation, construction of a logical argument, referencing and sources) and a bunch of facts that people might think relevant (knowledge of Shakespeare, history of WW2, the heliocentric nature of the solar system, the periodic table etc etc).

I don’t really understand why knowledge of the main religious texts and practices is considered somehow different or less relevant. One of my Cambridge-educated friends believed the sun was a planet until recently and, to be fair, it hasn’t affected her life much. What facts we consider important is fairly subjective.

@DataColour children "study" books from Reception !
It will be Percy the Park Keeper or Snail and the Whale at that age though - not Steinbeck 😂
You are right though. By the end of Year 9 children have been in school for ten years. Eleven if they do nursery class.
Really all the basics/facts should be done and from Year 10 upwards it should be more about Ethical and Philosophy etc and it shouldn't be a GCSE (unless a student wants to study indepth).

I think the question is OP which syllabus are you using?

Learning about various faiths and cultures is a really good thing to learn but most RC schools don't do that they teach RC RE and then one other which can't be Christianity.

My old RC school is in an area with a large Muslim population, so naturally the teach RC Christianity and Judaism.

As well as literacy and numeracy other subjects have to show smsc in the scheme of work. Spiritual, moral, social and cultural development. So yes, you did have to include RE in your work scheme

I think it is an incredibly important subject that needs to stay and be compulsory.

In my day - 1980s we learnt about abortion, homosexuality and all sorts.

My daughter opted to do it at GCSE and got a 9 but it was called Philosophy and Religion. She had the choice to do philosophy at a level and would have done P and R had it been on offer and may well yet do one online. She is doing all the science and going into vet med - I think it is vital to understand religion as it is the cause of so many problems and ethics etc She is a total atheist by the way.

How?

Clause 28 was introduced around then?

Homosexuality was not to be talked about in schools. I started teaching in 96. It was still place then

This.

DD is also an atheist, as is the rest of our family. She studied RE at GCSE and got a grade 9. 50% of the course was studying the basic tenets of two different religions and looking at where their beliefs align and differ. The other 50% was moral and ethical studies.

On the back of this, because she enjoyed the morality and ethics side of the course so much, she has gone on to do Philosophy A level and is going on to study philosophy at uni.

Having the ability to consider why other people might think the way they do, and being able to think critically about moral and ethical issues is always going to be useful.

Clause 28 came into effect in 1988. There was a lot of the 80s before that.

This is often stated but I don'tthink it was really the case in practice. I know clause 28 was in place but I was at school in 80s and 90s and we definitely learnt about homosexuality in PSHE classes throughout my secondary years. I vividly recall one conversation with a teacher about whether it was "natural" with me saying it wasn't because of evolution and natural selection and her telling me there were multiple examples of homosexual behaviour in animals.

But also to the PP...the OP asked about respect for the GCSE.....the class is important. The exam and qualification far less so and certainly not at the expense of studying for other GCSEs.
Every child has core lessons in this subject whether they do the exam or not....but it's the hours of revision at home that are disruptive.

I haven't read every single reply, but appreciate the wide spread of opinions.

I have to say, I'm disappointed by the large amount of posters who seem to have an outright hatred and intolerance for religion in general. As someone already said on the thread, 85% of the world's population identify with a religion. Whatever your views, it isn't going anywhere.

I'd be interested in hearing from people who are intolerant of religion.

If your child was given the opportunity to go to a place of worship (mosque, gurdwara, mandir) would you let them?

What about being okay with respecting the rules? Like girls covering their heads, taking off shoes etc?

I hadn't realised so many apparently educated individuals lack critical thinking when it comes to respecting other people's views and beliefs.

I am an atheist
I think religion is not only pointless it is responsible for many of the ills in this world.
I would not choose a religious school and don't think they should be statefunded
I do celebrate Christmas.
i do own a bible ftom my own christening.
i do know the lords prayer
I am not intolerant of any religion.
I respect individuals and their cultural heritage, but not extreme or evangelical beliefs.
I don't like people trying to persuade or recruit.
I don't like concepts such as one religion being right, and everyone else wrong, or the Islamic use of Revert vs convert.

I would be and am very happy for my children to visit any religious building, gave friends of any religion, to choose their own beliefs. I will always respect others beliefs including dress and diet etc ....as long as there is no significant adverse impact on me (or them)
Wear a head scarf....but if you wear a veil that means I can't hear or lip read that's a problem.
Jehova's witnesses don't bother me....as long as a sick child gets a blood transfusion if needed.

I am what you might call a cultural Christian.

I am personally of the opinion that christianity has done a lot of harm over the centuries.

Consider:

The Spanish Inquisition (which operated in countries where the population was previously Muslim or Jewish but were not permitted to leave when conquered)

The selling of indulgences by the papacy to fund the crusades to the point where you could buy official forgiveness for a sin of your choice up to and including murder

The various Christian apocalyptic cults including the 16th century take over of Munster when the whole population pretty much ended up dead

The Albigensian crusade

Not to mention the baking in of the inferiority of women, the sexual abuse scandal in the Catholic Church, the Magdalen laundries etc etc.

Religion might not be going away. And many Christians these days try to live a godly life. But there's plenty that don't.

I can only speak for myself, but I'm interested in others' beliefs and think it is important to understand them. I am more than happy to respect anyone's beliefs so long as they are respectful of others and don't use their beliefs as an excuse to discriminate against anyone.

However, I am strongly opposed to state-funded faith schools, and I think that an RE curriculum in a Catholic school that focuses primarily on Catholicism with a bit of Judaism thrown in is not really about educating children on a range of different beliefs or promoting critical thinking. I do think that this particular approach makes it sound like a pointless subject, whereas a more diverse and wide-ranging approach to the subject would potentially be very valuable.

I have always been more than happy for my dc to learn about all faiths and beliefs, to visit places of worship and to mark various religious festivals etc. However, I do not agree with the disproportionate focus on any one particular faith - parents and religious organisations can do this, state-funded education should not.

I’m not ok with my child participating in being treated differently because of her sex. So if the site requires girls to cover their heads but not boys, then I would find the trip discriminatory and would object on that basis.

If they segregate by sex and the facilities are not equal, that would also be objectionable. Such as incidents where female reporters were kept at the back behind a screen while male reporters were given full access.

there are moral absolutes that should not be excused by culture or religion.

I hadn't realised so many apparently educated individuals lack critical thinking when it comes to respecting other people's views and beliefs

If this is the level of your thinking, OP, I’m not surprised parents and children don’t respect your classes. That’s a shockingly poor straw man you’ve created. You should be ashamed of yourself.

I respect people’s beliefs. I respect their right to religious observance. I think their stories and traditions enrich human culture and inspire magnificent works of art across the world. I have very much enjoyed sharing my culture’s festivals with friends and theirs with me and my family. We’re all richer for those exchanges.

That doesn’t mean I think RE is a subject that should be compulsory in secondary school, nor that it’s a robust subject equal to other GCSE subjects. I can think of a dozen other things it would be far more interesting or useful to teach children.

For as long as you conflate “religion is a negative force in mankind” and “this is not a subject for state education to teach” with “you all lack critical thinking and are intolerant”, you are your subject’s worst enemy.

I think that RE is as valid an academic subject as any other humanity. I would just as equally object if history or geography or classics etc was made compulsory at GCSE.

I’m not intolerant, I’m just not interested. The same as I’ve no interest in geography or woodwork, I learned the basics at school but I wouldn’t choose to take an exam in them, and I would object to having to simply because my closest school is a ‘woodwork school’ when there are other subjects that would be of more use in my day to day life or chosen career.

The problem for STEM (plus a bit of English) purists is that the majority of pupils get less out of studying STEM than they do the humanities (and I speak as someone who taught Physics for 10 years).

STEM is amazing for those who are genuinely interested but what I found depressing is that, for the average pupil that I helped to get even a 7 (and even sometimes an 8), they would revise efficiently for their GCSE learning the verbiage and formula ‘triangles’ but, if you asked the about anything they had learned 6 months after, it would all be a total blank (which is quite depressing really!). However important STEM is, it really isn’t if you never use it.

At least discussing History or Books or the ethics behind different religions, all pupils can get into it and can develop analytical and conversational skills.

(Some of this is the way we examine with schools and parental focus being overarchingly on grades).

I am increasingly of the opinion that no subject should be compulsory to 16. Once you have basic numeracy and literacy, all subjects have equal value and should be optional. It might also bring more joy into the classroom,.

OP your criical thinking skills are not up to much if you cannot grasp that other countries manage to run perfectly well without teaching RE 🙄

I hate religion, BUT that does not mean my children dont get the opportunity to learn and understand it and more importantly make their own choice about following it.

They have a wide range of friends with many different religions and cultures, one of my children actively believes in god.

So whilst i hate it and think it causes endless issues within our world I also firmly stand by children learning about it but crucial to that is, making their own choices.

I do think im in the minority though, and unfortunately we have many children being brought up within strict religious environments with no real choices of their own to make.

A lot of posters of this thread are referring to the fact that the families "actively sought a catholic school" but did they? We were given a CofE school for my children because it was the one we were awarded. It was NOT our choice. I personally think all state schools should be secular with the option of private faith schools.
Having said that I agree that it's important for kids to learn about all religions.

@AuxArmesCitoyens I am curious in your country do you really not learn literally anything to do with religion in your schools?
How do you learn about the Second World War without knowing about Judaism?
Do you not study books like The Diary of Anne Frank or When Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit?

I don't think it's common for secondary pupils to be assigned a Catholic school. Different for CofE I believe.

I agree - State school isn't the place for religious practice.
I also agree that children should be taught religion as part of a holistic education.

It comes up as appropriate in history lessons. No need for an entire separate subject or ten years of classes. Everyone studies philosophy instead to equip them to become useful and productive members of society.