Is your household contributing net tax ?

[Pingufireengine]

Following on from the awful disabled people are a drain on society threads...

For those that have children, have you considered this?

Roughly 55-60% of all households aren't net contributors to tax.

That's not to say the households that don't make a net contribution are in receipt of benefits.

Having children entails the following:

(This is per child)

Maternity care on NHS/midwifes,
Birth/delivery £3000-10000,
Post Delivery Care,
Health Visitors,
Statutory Maternity Leave,
Free prescriptions during pregnancy and after birth for 1 year,
Child gets free eye tests, glasses, prescriptions, dentist until 16/18
Child benefit until 16-20
Free nursery hours £2000-7000 per
Free School Milk £30-40
Free school meals: £400-500
School is £7,690 per
Sixth form/college/higher education £4,843

Student loans for university £30,000-50,000+

Yes the loans are paid back, but the initial offset is footed by taxpayers. And around 27% of full-time undergraduates starting in 2022/23 will repay them in full. They forecast that after the 2022 reforms this would increase to 61% among new students from 2023/24.

So instead of looking to blame those who are disabled for being a drain, look elsewhere, and better yet, instead of the disabled, pensioners, the working poor...we should look towards those are govern us, avoid tax.

The UK pension is the lowest in Europe, our wages are low and have stagnanted, working rights and conditions have eroded.

The UK looks asset rich, but it's only a small number who are generating huge wealth for themselves. There are parts of the UK poorer than the poorest parts of Poland. In fact, Poland is predicted to be wealthier per person than the UK in just a few years.

Maternity care is awful, the NHS is broken and on its knees, social care is non existent.

We've had austerity for 14 years, then Brexit, then COVID. Our country is in desperate need of investment into our creeking infrastructure.

You're so right!

I get PIP which gives me some independence from my partner and would be my only income if we broke up, but I still pay voluntary NI contributions and he pays a high rate of tax, so as a household we are probably net contributors due to not having children.

You need to acknowledge that you personally are not paying specifically her council tax. Your taxes are going on a vast amount of things that you and wider society use all the time. A very very tiny proportion of what you pay is going on her council tax. Of course people could withdraw all help from all people who need it and start living in compounds with armed guards instead.

Wow, the very definition of hyperbole.

Isn't that the end of the road though when one group hoards and the other group goes without?

Apart from nobody has suggested that. Just that we all start doing our fair share a bit more.

@Welovecrumpets didn't claim to be personally paying someone else's council tax!

The point being made is that there is a difference someone who doesn't earn and is wholly reliant on benefits having their council tax paid for them through public funds; and a public sector worker who earns money in return for the job they are doing and who then pays their council tax out of those (taxed!) earnings.

A previous poster didn't seem to understand the difference

Supply and demand, and not choosing to work for an employer who is in a monopoly position so can effectively dictate what the job will pay.

I think I'm a net contributor. My 3 adult DC are adults now but I've always worked after first 6 months. My Mum looked after my DC whilst I worked. When my kids were young there was no government help towards childcare. I've never claimed any benefit except child benefit when DC under 18, at that point it was universal benefit. I've paid 40 percent tax most my life and so has DH. We've had private health insurance so not to drain on NHS. We both pay the dentist privately too so not taking a NHS spot. I've got btl properties and pay 40 percent tax on profit from those not in limited company name. I'm living off my private Teachers' pension as not eligible for state pension yet. DH also living off his private pension and investments as also not old enough for state pension yet. All my 3 DC work and 2 pay 40 percent tax. DD has repaid student loan in full and both DS's didn't want to go to uni. None of my dc claim benefits either except 1 DS only pays 75 percent council tax as he gets a 25 percent discount for sole occupancy. Also my DD went to an independent school so not a drain on state either. When my DC were small and I could have used some state support such as a UC top up none was available.

Corporations must pay a lot more tax. How many corporations are net contributors? They benefit from the infrastructure we all contribute to, an educated workforce etc, and yet pay less per £1 of turnover in tax than the average small business. Loopholes must be closed and if they aren’t we should all be prepared to push this point with whatever government gets elected.

Well I’d imagine that the infrastructure costs of ‘running’ the country are a not insignificant amount, which all have to come from that There’s defence, transport, environment, culture, and debt interest as a minium. Then there’s the actual cost of government, civil service and local councils. Healthy people still need access to a GP, and the GP gets paid for having them on their books regardless of use. And given it’s government we are talking about sadly I can see that costing well over £10k!!

Haven’t read the full thread but you’re not taking into account all the other taxes. I pay VAT on just about everything, council tax, road tax, licence fee (tax to me), insurance tax, tax on capital gains ~ plus stamp duty if I move, inheritance tax if someone dies. Most people are paying massive taxes just to live their lives.

Also can we stop this ‘worst pension in Europe’ thing. Most pensions in Europe are very similar to ours and often claimed later. I know because my DP is in receipt of one! It’s about £200 pa difference to ours and had to wait until 67 whilst I got mine at 66.

Who pays what is surely a circular argument. We need a system that is fair and applied consistently. And in return we get a good service. Taxes in some European countries are far higher yet accepted because public services are so much better.

It’s not soulless. Perhaps ask nurses if they’ll take another round of applause instead of a pay rise?

it also isn’t denigrating other contributions to society to say that the government needs money to pay its bills. Have you tried paying the mortgage with good deeds?

Not really. 😂

The way around this, aside from closing corporate tax loopholes is to change tax codes.

Many key workers aren’t net contributors If you’re a key workers

Sorry posted too soon.

Many key workers aren’t net contributors - it isn’t their fault they need to be better paid.

Exactly.

I worked in social care (same goes for childcare and other sectors essential for society to run) for many years - not a net contributor financially, because it's value is very low, it's considered unskilled and therefore low paid, yet essential to society.
But how many people are enabled to go and do their net contribution job by those working in those sectors? And not at home having to care for their own elderly, ill, infirm or disabled family members?

I also got tax credits for a time because my earnings were too low to live on, even by this governments standards - so you're going to pay for these services one way or the other really. Either by way of increased wages for the people in those jobs, or low wages and a bigger benefits bill. People are not going to be available to do those jobs if they're living under a bridge somewhere, they need to be able to actually survive to be able to contribute the work they do.

People want these services, they don't think that those providing them deserve a higher wage because it's unskilled (or more accurately imo, in case it devalues their income because someone 'unskilled' is earning more) but they also don't want people on low wages or supported by the tax payer.

The real kicker there though is the companies charging a fortune, paying a pittance for the actual work and pocketing the difference - but we idolise those people as examples of what 'hard work' can 'earn' you (as a society) ignoring it's other people's hard work that makes it all happen, and those other people are the ones being told they're not contributing.

Yes I’m a net contributor. And sometimes it sticks in the craw that I pay such a higher percentage of my income than the likes of Rishi Sunak (although the gross figure he pays is obviously a lot higher). But none of that changes the fact that I fully believe and am committed to the welfare state. A society can only be civilised if it takes care of its most vulnerable.

Good post

You are so right

Perhaps ask nurses if they’ll take another round of applause instead of a pay rise?

I regret applauding now. We were trying to say thank you and now it's thrown in our faces for ever after.

I'm not a nurse, but I was a care assistant during COVID and at least from my standpoint, the gesture was appreciated at the time - because we had little else, we'd never been appreciated yet were expected to put ourselves at risk for the greater good for the lowest you're legally allowed to pay someone.
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and it's certainly not a good reason to not pay decent wages and have decent working conditions, to then tell people they're not contributing, doesn't make the job any more respected now or 'worth' more to society and I think that's the point - with some people it's almost like "You got a clap for going to work, what more do you want?! 🙄"

Conveniently forgetting that hospital staff predominantly were at higher risk when treating COVID and put at more risk by the PPE scandals (to make a government crony a few quid) and care workers as well as those they looked after knowingly exposed by lack of PPE completely and by sending untested patients into an environment where being together and sociable is the whole bloody point and social distancing virtually impossible - and then blamed for the results.

I was also told if I wanted to keep my job a year or so later I had to have the vaccination and care workers who even questioned it were demonised. This was after years of being told we didn't need to be vaccinated against things like flu because the service users were vaccinated - we didn't need to be, if we weren't vulnerable ourselves in some way. By the same people who threw us and the vulnerable people in our care under the bus at the start of it - and people wondered why there was a lack of trust?! They then ensured a proportion of what workforce was left went home because of Brexit and the rest of us were back to being lazy scroungers not being arsed to get a decent job and contribute enough tax.

So yeah we got clapped, we got appreciated, for a few months, compared to years of being treated like shit.

Parents of disabled children who grow up become disabled adults should care for them or contribute to their care costs if they have to go in a home. I accept that Partners and Spouses are different because their relationship is different to that of a parent and child. If a person becomes disabled during a relationship and has assets then their share of the joint assets should go towards their care much like the elderly if they have to go into a a home. The financial burden falls onto the state when their assets reduce to a an agreed level. Family first, state second.

There is no one magic bullet which will make money go further. There is a limit to how much the very wealthy will tolerate before they go elsewhere. Just ask the French. Is grouping those with more than you into one homogenous group and calling them selfish tax dodgers any better than people on benefits being grouped together as lazy scroungers?

You cannot expect to have a sensible conversation on the subject of benefits and only talk about tax avoidance and wealth. It's pointless unless you also discuss benefit cheats and waste in the system. Maybe it would be easier to provide more support for carers if absent parents actually had to contribute to their children, or the government didn't waste billions, Track and Trace springs to or if there were rent caps in certain places or we focused more effectively on prevention.

Many carers on these threads have shown as much contempt for others as they claim is shown to them.

Can i ask how you feel about able bodied children who go on to be disabled. Say Im 40. My parent is 68. If i get menugitis this week and my insurance only pays out a bit due to some get out clause, am i back being there responsibility financially.

I take huge issue with that. While family taking responsibility is a grand moral ideal, how do households manage when one wage dissappear when caring becomes a full time job and is replaced by a "token payment" of 81.90 and the threat of criminalization if you manage by some miracle to earn a penny over 151.01 in some part time position, as has happened to countless recently reported in the press?

The COL is the issue ultimately with a liberal dose of capitalism without compassion or logic.