to think that the definition of ant-social behaviour needs to be a little more rigid

[OrmIrian]

All the residents in our street have had a letter tonight from the community safety officer about anti-social behaviour in the street. The anti-social behaviour consists of children (up to the age of about 13) talking, playing on their skateboards and riding their bikes. They are not foul-mouthed, aggressive or destructive in anyway. But there is one elderly lady who is totally paranoid about them. She comes out and shouts at them, tells them to go down the other end of the street to play (in a cul-de-sac that is the dangerous end where the traffic comes in ). She has also been known to swear at them. Also a man with a van who struts out of his house like a turkey cock with aggression problems whenever anyone goes near his van. Despite the fact that I think the whole business is a storm in a teacup I have now told my DCs that they can't ride the bikes or use their skateboards. (I already ban them from football for obvious reasons).

We've been told to make them play in the park which is fine during most of the day but from about 5pm their are groups of much older children who hang around and truly are intimidating. Is it a good idea to encourage younger children to join in with them Also dog sh*t is a major problem.

So if anti-social behaviour can be ..and I quote " any behaviour that causes nuisance, alaem or distress to the community" the children could be in trouble for doing anything at all! If someone decides to object, they will be breaking the law. As far as i know riding bikes on the road isn't illegal but if it 'distresses' someone, they can be in trouble.

So I am girding my loins to write a polite letter asking for specific information about what exactly constitutes anti-social behaviour so that I can ensure my children are not guilty of it. Oh..yes...and if behaving in a threatening and abusive manner to minors doesn't constitute anti-social behaviour. But not yet. I am too cross!

Oviously the title should have read 'anti-social behaviour' not 'ant social'

I am just so distressed that my well-behaved, polite children could be labelled 'anti-social' because they like to play outside and we don't have a big enough garden .

It's just a question of being the bigger pita to the cso, I guess....I would start complaining every time the old biddy kicks off.

I think these subjective definitions are very dangerous.
Too easy for a majority to use them to attack a minority.

A major reason dh and I have decided not to bring ds up in the UK is that we'd like him to be able to play out in the street all the time, and that seems to be more and more difficult in the UK...

Yes that's what bothers me kathy.

ib- until recently all the children here played out without a problem. All of a sudden they are being seen as anti-social. It's the main reason I put up with the down-sides of living here. Community spirit. Not any more

OI - it sounds as if the elderly lady and the man-with-a-van are just as "anti-social" if not more than any of the children playing in your cul-de-sac.

Complain. Write a polite letter to the Community Safety Officer weighing up everyone's position as fairly as you can and try to negotiate a better deal for your childre.

Point out that just because the elderly lady and you do not agree about the noise levels in the street does not make your children "anti-social".

I will do. I am just trying to frame it in the politest least emotive terms.

Oh I hate this orm. I live in the first house in a cul de sac (big, expensive houses), and quite often have 4 or 5 early teens who live on the main road (significantly cheaper semi's) skateboarding outside my house. I have no problem with it at all - it will be my kids one day, they are polite, get out of the road quickly when cars come, are stationary when people are walking along pavement. But one of the idiots who lives further down (who I already don't like because he won't use our excellent local state primary because he wants his kids to get a "proper" education) e-mailed us all asking us to agree to his applying for planning permission to gate the end of the road and make us a private estate so we didn't get "riff-raff invading our street"! I think you do need to write the letter, or phone the community safety officer. Whilst tehy ahve a duty to ensure your neighbours aren't frightened, they surely also have a duty to keep the children in the area safe, and suggesting they play somewhere other than outside their houses doesn't accomplish that.

Yes, the better worded and more reasonable your letter, the greater your chances of success

My parents have been leading a fight against an encampment of gypsies in their road (in an area of outstanding natural beauty where practically all planning permission applications for even minor home alterations are turned down). It's hard work getting justice sometimes... good luck

God. Ghettoising children, profrock!

they don't have any "duty" to cater to prejudice - far from it - or to harass children who are going about their lawful business.

I'd copy your letter to the Community Safety Officer to the Children's Commissioner, Sir Al Aynsley Green (look up the Department for Children Schools and Families website, should have a link to him there - and maybe some useful info about the importance of children playing out). Public spaces are just that, public, and everyone is entitled to use them.

OK. Thanks edam.

Oh sh*t!

DS#1 was sitting on our front wall with his little mate playing with his Nintendo. Van man came out and told them to go home and stop making a nuisance of themselves

Shit, shit, shit! I want to move house right now. I am so unconfrontational and I don't want to fight but this is unacceptable. Isn't it?

Message withdrawn

Grrr at Van Man. Nasty old git.

Message withdrawn

White Van Man and Old Lady are obviously engaged in Illegal Activity of some kind and they are worried your ds is onto them, in manner of 1970s juvenile detective drama.

Seriously, white van man is way out of line. It's your front wall.

I blame the media and their constant harping on about 'gangs' of teenagers 'rampaging' etc etc etc

99.9% of young children/teenagers are lovely imo

we lived outside when we were children, constantly running about and playing, we would no doubt all have ASBO's now ffs

and if you son was sitting on YOUR OWN WALL wtf has it got to do with white van man?

tell him to take a hike and go and read The Sun

Your children are definitely victims of the current fear re. out of control/feral/unparented youngsters we read about every day. The elderly woman and van man you describe are making good use of that national hysteria to ensure their own little piece of the street is silent and unruffled in any way.

Your children DO have a right to be outside!!
You are trying to do the right thing - allow your children some freedom, within limits.

Definitely write to your council and copy your letter and any replies to all the residents on your street. If EVERYONE disagrees with you (unlikely), you might want to consider moving, but my guess is that this approach will engender greater cooperation and community spirit. The two 'characters' you mention might just find themselves ostracized.

Good luck - I feel for you.

Ormirian, I think you should get in a counter complaint now. You don't live near me do you? (a slightly posher bit of a part of north east London with a very poor image) Don't suppose you do but your female neighbour sounds like someone who lives a couple of streets from us!

Seriously, I think you should also go and visit, or send an email or a letter to your local councillors, making this point - "anti social behaviour" shouldn't be used against kids playing in the street.

I think what upsets me is the feeling that everyone feels got at by someone else.

I was brought up in the middle of nowhere. We didn't have neighbours, let alone children to play with. So this street seemed like heaven to me. Everyone got on and all the children played together. I think my expectations might have been a bit OTT But it's got totally out of hand.

Thanks for all your support btw. I have got so spooked by all this recently I wondered if I might get a spate of 'children should be unseen and unheard' replies.

the government bitches about childhood obesity and blames parents for being overprotective and not letting their kids play out.

then continue to allow children to be demonised for being children.