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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Been refused any annual leave this year.

319 replies

HolidayNotAvailable · 03/05/2024 14:12

§Name changed as I don’t want my name to be associated as I know some people who work for the same company are on here.

I am entitled to 25 days annual leave, which increases every year after two years.

If you don’t take all your annual leave you can carry over 35 hours but if you don’t take the rest then you lose it.

Things are made more complicated by the fact that people are allowed to buy additional annual leave, and this means that a lot of people have up to 35 days.

The upshot of this is that there isn’t enough quota in the calendar to allow all annual leave requests.

Our annual leave system is digital, we book annual leave and receive a message to say it is either declined or accepted.

And the annual leave is based on how many people are available in the department not the team.

Most people end up booking all their annual leave at the beginning of the year, including their extra two weeks which most people have bought.

Which means that if you haven’t booked any annual leave for the next year by the end of December when the annual leave is released on to the system you pretty much don’t stand a chance.

I didn’t book as soon as the leave was released not least because I didn’t have any specific plans, but even when I started to try a couple of days in all my requests were declined.

To date I have attempted to book several weeks in every month of the year, and apart from one week in December, and one day which I know I will get over Christmas because those are booked separately, every one of my requests has been declined.

So this means that by the end of the year I am going to have about four weeks annual leave left, and I can only carry over one week.
I am certain that this is made worse by the fact that people are able to buy extra leave and that realistically we don’t have enough quota in the department to accommodate existing annual leave as wel as essentially several months worth when you take into account all that has been bought.

Some people have 6/7 weeks booked in, and I can’t even get one.

I’m sure there’s no way I can get the time off, so I’ve resigned myself to not taking any annual leave this year apart from that one week in December.

But would it be reasonable to approach my employer and request that, given I’ve been declined any leave, they buy it back off me? I don’t know what else to do.

OP posts:
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LiquoriceAllsorts2 · 03/05/2024 14:15

By law you have to have some time off (think 20 days but may be wrong) so they will need to let you have it. You should discuss with your manager/ hr to make it work.
It sounds like you won’t have much choice over the dates so good to start thinking about what you want for next year and get in early for that.

Overthebow · 03/05/2024 14:15

I think legally they have to allow you the statutory minimum, 20 days plus bank holidays for full time workers, although they can dictate when it’s taken. I’d set up a meeting with your manager and tell them you’ve been trying unsuccessfully to book your leave and ask for dates you can take it.

Friend2023 · 03/05/2024 14:15

I would go to your manager and ask them to look In the diary at what weeks you can have and then I would complain further if there's nothing left. If you can't even use your normal annual leave they shouldn't be letting people buy more .

ThirtyThrillionThreeTrees · 03/05/2024 14:15

I wouldn't accept that. Mental health, risk of burn out etc.

It's an issue for HR to resolve asylum are entitled to it and don't accept payment in lieu.

lazyarse123 · 03/05/2024 14:17

That's a terrible system. I wish I knew the legalities for you as it doesn't sound like they can legally do this.
We have a digital system but can also talk to a line manager to book time off. I hope you get sorted.

ChillyB · 03/05/2024 14:18

I would contact my line manager say I've tried to book and can't get any dates. They will have to approve outwith the system. I would also suggest to them that the leave that has been purchased beyond the existing allowance should not be allowed to be booked until everyone has booked their statutory allowance in future that gives people more chance.

user1471554720 · 03/05/2024 14:18

Ask if your employer could put a special request in to override the system. You are entitled ti annual leave including 2 weeks taken consecutively.

The system is set up for everyone to take their 25 days. They probably don't realise that if everyone buys more annual leave, then there won't be enough cover. People should not be allowed buy leave if there is no cover, or else extra staff should be employed.

Pulltheother · 03/05/2024 14:18

They can't buy it back, but you must be allowed to have a minimum of 5.6 weeks.

Yes, you absolutely should talk to them about a system that doesn't work.

purpleme12 · 03/05/2024 14:18

You need to bring this up with someone, the unfairness.
Sometimes they don't know until you bring it up.

Purplecatshopaholic · 03/05/2024 14:18

Most people are legally entitled to the statutory minimum in this country which is 5.6 weeks (28 days for a 5 day working week). Speak to your line manager, and HR - for health reasons as well as legally, you need your annual leave!

Floralnomad · 03/05/2024 14:19

You need to speak to your hr dept or whoever deals with it and explain the situation . They have to allow you to take holiday .

Meadowfinch · 03/05/2024 14:21

Legally, they have to allow you 20 days, so talk to HR, tell them when you want to take your legal minimum entitlement and get them to sort it out. It is their problem, not yours.

Original poster
HolidayNotAvailable · 03/05/2024 14:23

My line manager is sympathetic but her hands are tied.

We are beholden to a particular department who allow or don’t allow requests. They even set people’s schedules and can tell us we’re not allowed to have meetings if we’re busy. Everyone hates them. It’s the sort of department you wouldn’t want to work because you wouldn’t want people to know you worked there 😂

OP posts:
WaltzingWaters · 03/05/2024 14:23

Definitely bring this up. If you’re not fussed on when you take leave say “I’ve tried x amount of dates which have been declined, could you please let me know when there is leave available and I’ll take it then.” It at least brings the issue up, and if they say there’s no time available go from there. But it shouldn’t be allowed that you don’t get any of your time.

thecatsthecats · 03/05/2024 14:23

It probably doesn't even work for most departments, as they'll have different peaks and troughs and need for staff.

I was always chasing my staff to incentivise taking leave so that no one ended up with too much over a busy period.

curious79 · 03/05/2024 14:24

Time for a manager and HR involved conversation. Legally they have to give you leave. Morally they have to give you leave. Shocking

titchy · 03/05/2024 14:24

Yes don't resign yourself to it! If no one can take annual when one other person is off, then all you need to do is show that it is not physically possible for everyone to have their contractual annual leave entitlement, therefore the system needs looking at.

If there are 253 (?) working days a year, and everyone has the option to take 35 days, then clearly if you have a team of more than 7.5 full time equivalent staff, there will need to be some days where more than one person is on leave.

Pepsiisbetterthancoke · 03/05/2024 14:24

They cannot decline so many of your requests that it means you don’t take any holidays

Does your manager know that them declining every request means you won’t have any? If yes then you need to escalate to HR. This is one that HR will definitely be on your side about as it puts the company on dodgy legal ground

You may have to accept that while they will give you leave eventually, because they have to, it might be on days that the dictate and not when you want. Which is shit but at least you will get a break

Another option is leave as you will get paid any holiday hours that you have accrued by your leaving date

curious79 · 03/05/2024 14:24

And frankly their 'computer says no' system is laughable if it doesn't manage the full quota of requests

Notimeforaname · 03/05/2024 14:25

By law you have to have time off.

Dont ask, tell your manager you will be taking the 4 weeks and they need to figure out where you can take them or they are breaking the law.

dementedpixie · 03/05/2024 14:25

Legally its 28 days for full time workers, not 20 days. You need to speak to them and ask them to pave a way to taking the leave you are legally entitled to.

Overthebow · 03/05/2024 14:25

HolidayNotAvailable · 03/05/2024 14:23

My line manager is sympathetic but her hands are tied.

We are beholden to a particular department who allow or don’t allow requests. They even set people’s schedules and can tell us we’re not allowed to have meetings if we’re busy. Everyone hates them. It’s the sort of department you wouldn’t want to work because you wouldn’t want people to know you worked there 😂

No, her hands aren’t tied, it’s illegal not to give you your 20 days. It’s your managers job to come up with a solution, go to hr if your manager won’t do anything.

Saintmariesleuth · 03/05/2024 14:26

I would approach HR anyway and get the response in writing. Are you in a union? If so, I would be having a chat with them after approaching HR and see what they might advise.

This is incredibly unfair- I line manage and make every effort to ensure a fair opportunity for AL to be taken in my team. Your manager really should be raising this with her bosses.

Brckngt · 03/05/2024 14:27

Illegal. They have to give you statutory minimum. So nobody’s hands are tied. The wonky way they’re tied is by the law, so give you statutory minimum every year.

contact hr and line manager together

UnbelievableLie · 03/05/2024 14:27

Why is this person a manager if they don't understand workers basic rights?

As others have said, you email your manager and HR and ask them what dates you'll be able to take. How they figure that out, is not your problem.