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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Been refused any annual leave this year.

319 replies

HolidayNotAvailable · 03/05/2024 14:12

§Name changed as I don’t want my name to be associated as I know some people who work for the same company are on here.

I am entitled to 25 days annual leave, which increases every year after two years.

If you don’t take all your annual leave you can carry over 35 hours but if you don’t take the rest then you lose it.

Things are made more complicated by the fact that people are allowed to buy additional annual leave, and this means that a lot of people have up to 35 days.

The upshot of this is that there isn’t enough quota in the calendar to allow all annual leave requests.

Our annual leave system is digital, we book annual leave and receive a message to say it is either declined or accepted.

And the annual leave is based on how many people are available in the department not the team.

Most people end up booking all their annual leave at the beginning of the year, including their extra two weeks which most people have bought.

Which means that if you haven’t booked any annual leave for the next year by the end of December when the annual leave is released on to the system you pretty much don’t stand a chance.

I didn’t book as soon as the leave was released not least because I didn’t have any specific plans, but even when I started to try a couple of days in all my requests were declined.

To date I have attempted to book several weeks in every month of the year, and apart from one week in December, and one day which I know I will get over Christmas because those are booked separately, every one of my requests has been declined.

So this means that by the end of the year I am going to have about four weeks annual leave left, and I can only carry over one week.
I am certain that this is made worse by the fact that people are able to buy extra leave and that realistically we don’t have enough quota in the department to accommodate existing annual leave as wel as essentially several months worth when you take into account all that has been bought.

Some people have 6/7 weeks booked in, and I can’t even get one.

I’m sure there’s no way I can get the time off, so I’ve resigned myself to not taking any annual leave this year apart from that one week in December.

But would it be reasonable to approach my employer and request that, given I’ve been declined any leave, they buy it back off me? I don’t know what else to do.

OP posts:
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Original poster
HolidayNotAvailable · 15/05/2024 09:28

Shantayyoustaysashayaway · 15/05/2024 00:13

The fairest way surely is to not allow staff that have already booked their quota of al to buy extra until everyone else in the department has booked theirs?

People buy their AL at the beginning of the year, in fact they buy it before the holiday is released on to the system.

Then the holiday is released on to the system and people book it up as soon as it’s released.

OP posts:
MissScarletInTheBallroom · 15/05/2024 09:37

Have you got anywhere with this yet @HolidayNotAvailable?

Original poster
HolidayNotAvailable · 15/05/2024 09:39

So update.

Through going through every single week in the year I have managed to get a week off in December and one in November. Except both of those weeks fall on weekends I would be working so that’s essentially eight days, added to my week in December.

Weekends are a strict no at the moment. We’re short staffed on weekends to the extent they’re offering the ability to have time off during the week and to work the weekend instead.

I spoke to my line manager, who has just come back off holiday (oh the irony), who said that she does sympathise but literally all she is able to do is speak to the senior management and the scheduling team and she is as much at their mercy as we are.

So I have now contacted the union who were going to be discussing it as part of their next meeting as I’m not the only one who is put out.

Thing is it’s all very well talking about tribunals and hiring lawyers and so on, but these companies know that people like me just can’t afford them, and so they get away with it.

OP posts:
MyOtherHusbandIsAWash · 15/05/2024 09:46

HolidayNotAvailable · 15/05/2024 09:39

So update.

Through going through every single week in the year I have managed to get a week off in December and one in November. Except both of those weeks fall on weekends I would be working so that’s essentially eight days, added to my week in December.

Weekends are a strict no at the moment. We’re short staffed on weekends to the extent they’re offering the ability to have time off during the week and to work the weekend instead.

I spoke to my line manager, who has just come back off holiday (oh the irony), who said that she does sympathise but literally all she is able to do is speak to the senior management and the scheduling team and she is as much at their mercy as we are.

So I have now contacted the union who were going to be discussing it as part of their next meeting as I’m not the only one who is put out.

Thing is it’s all very well talking about tribunals and hiring lawyers and so on, but these companies know that people like me just can’t afford them, and so they get away with it.

I believe ACAS can talk to your employer on your behalf. Definitely speak to ACAS first regardless and find out what your options are. You should not end up having to pay legal fees (I don’t think) as it seems pretty clear cut you’d win a tribunal if you are supposed to get the statutory minimum holiday allowance (check your contract to confirm). Your manager telling you their hands are tied is laughable-your hands are also tied…by the law!

WittyFatball · 15/05/2024 09:49

Have you actually asked your employer (in writing) to tell you when you can take your holiday?
Sympathetic chats with your line manager aren't helping you.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 15/05/2024 09:54

HolidayNotAvailable · 15/05/2024 09:39

So update.

Through going through every single week in the year I have managed to get a week off in December and one in November. Except both of those weeks fall on weekends I would be working so that’s essentially eight days, added to my week in December.

Weekends are a strict no at the moment. We’re short staffed on weekends to the extent they’re offering the ability to have time off during the week and to work the weekend instead.

I spoke to my line manager, who has just come back off holiday (oh the irony), who said that she does sympathise but literally all she is able to do is speak to the senior management and the scheduling team and she is as much at their mercy as we are.

So I have now contacted the union who were going to be discussing it as part of their next meeting as I’m not the only one who is put out.

Thing is it’s all very well talking about tribunals and hiring lawyers and so on, but these companies know that people like me just can’t afford them, and so they get away with it.

OP, this is not your problem.

They have to allow you to take your full allocation of annual leave.

Tell your manager you don't want her sympathy, you want her to sort the problem out because if they don't allow you to take your full allocation of leave they are breaking the law.

Tell her that if she doesn't sort it out you will look for another job and quit at the most inconvenient time possible.

MidnightPatrol · 15/05/2024 10:05

HolidayNotAvailable · 15/05/2024 09:39

So update.

Through going through every single week in the year I have managed to get a week off in December and one in November. Except both of those weeks fall on weekends I would be working so that’s essentially eight days, added to my week in December.

Weekends are a strict no at the moment. We’re short staffed on weekends to the extent they’re offering the ability to have time off during the week and to work the weekend instead.

I spoke to my line manager, who has just come back off holiday (oh the irony), who said that she does sympathise but literally all she is able to do is speak to the senior management and the scheduling team and she is as much at their mercy as we are.

So I have now contacted the union who were going to be discussing it as part of their next meeting as I’m not the only one who is put out.

Thing is it’s all very well talking about tribunals and hiring lawyers and so on, but these companies know that people like me just can’t afford them, and so they get away with it.

OP, I’d actually (politely) escalate this above your line manager.

Who is the most senior person you have access to? Is there a proper HR function?

I suspect your manager has no power / isn’t wanting to rock the boat.

It’s ludicrous to not be able to take leave, perpetuated by everyone booking in their 7 weeks leave on the 1st of Jan. This is very u healthy.

3luckystars · 15/05/2024 11:21

I agree. It needs
to be escalated higher up.

Blondiebeachbabe · 15/05/2024 12:17

Stop being so passive. Send an Email to HR immediately, outlining the issue. They HAVE to give you your 28 days off. They don't get an option here. It is the LAW.

I've worked in a Bank, and it wasn't anything like this. Your Manager should be sorting this for you. He/she sounds shit.

littlegrebe · 15/05/2024 12:44

If your union doesn't come through then I agree with PPs, you should go to HR. HR isn't anyone's friend but it is their job to make sure the company doesn't lose at tribunal and they should be all over this. Failing that, ACAS. But I think your union raising this through their channels should get this sorted because it is so very clearly not legal.

KrisAkabusi · 15/05/2024 12:57

Tell her that if she doesn't sort it out you will look for another job and quit at the most inconvenient time possible.

DO NOT DO THIS! Even for this site, this is terrible advice. You have rights. Don't let them breaking the law bully you out. Tell your manager that she has a responsibility to sort this out. Sympathy is no good. Keep copies of your correspondence with your manager and your union, and contact HR directly with the issue. Talk to ACAS as well and let HR know that you are doing so. You don't need to fund lawyers or tribunals yourself, that's what your union is for.

rookiemere · 15/05/2024 13:00

OP is it just full weeks of holidays that have been looked at, as guaranteed if it goes to HR the first thing they will check is if it's physically possible to take your holiday allocation during the year. The ability to take full weeks is a preference not a requirement on their part.

Gazelda · 15/05/2024 13:33

This is absolutely awful and not in the interest of your wellbeing.

Even if they manage to find you enough days that you can take your AL, it isn't reasonable to have it in days here and there. Nor is it acceptable for the bulk to be taken close together and in the winter months.

As well as contacting HR and ACAS, Is there a staff forum you could raise this with?

I must say that your manager is incredibly disappointing. She is not looking after your welfare or rights. It is up to her to rectify this and to ensure that the matter is raised to whoever is necessary to ensure that AL can't be bought until all staff members have booked their leave.

I'd honestly be raising this as a grievance. You're being let down by your manager and your employer.

3luckystars · 15/05/2024 13:37

Well your manager is getting sorted so I doubt she cares. You need to go above her, the whole system is wrong.

3luckystars · 15/05/2024 13:39

What if you had bought extra leave and were unable to take it? Would you get a refund?

Clearly there are some that are getting the benefits from this system? They won’t want a change.

How absolutely ridiculous to offer people extra leave before anyone has even applied!! I think the Union is a good call. Well done.

horseyhorsey17 · 15/05/2024 13:43

Your manager isn't managing. She is not good at her job as she's literally supposed to be advocating on your behalf with senior management (among other things). You are legally entitled to that statutory leave, and it's not a case of 'computer says no', they have to give it to you. Escalate to your HR department and speak to ACAS.

EBearhug · 15/05/2024 14:11

So I have now contacted the union who were going to be discussing it as part of their next meeting as I’m not the only one who is put out.

Thing is it’s all very well talking about tribunals and hiring lawyers and so on, but these companies know that people like me just can’t afford them, and so they get away with it.

That's part of what you pay for to be in a union - they do have lawyers and employment law expertise - and to me, this sounds like a straightforward case, so they shouldn't even need lawyers. Good luck.

Livingtothefull · 15/05/2024 19:12

KrisAkabusi · 15/05/2024 12:57

Tell her that if she doesn't sort it out you will look for another job and quit at the most inconvenient time possible.

DO NOT DO THIS! Even for this site, this is terrible advice. You have rights. Don't let them breaking the law bully you out. Tell your manager that she has a responsibility to sort this out. Sympathy is no good. Keep copies of your correspondence with your manager and your union, and contact HR directly with the issue. Talk to ACAS as well and let HR know that you are doing so. You don't need to fund lawyers or tribunals yourself, that's what your union is for.

I agree with this. Do not make threats that could backfire on you, just insist that your employer complies with their legal duty to enable you to take your annual leave. Make sure this communication is in writing (email to management is fine).

'I spoke to my line manager, who has just come back off holiday (oh the irony), who said that she does sympathise but literally all she is able to do is speak to the senior management and the scheduling team and she is as much at their mercy as we are.'

Your line manager is just hopeless. She has no business to be managing people if she doesn't understand employers' legal obligations and duty of care, and she should be insisting with senior management on your behalf that they resolve this. Leaving this for you to manage on your own is pathetic in a manager.

murasaki · 15/05/2024 19:16

I thought in financial roles that they liked a block of time off as it could pick up any discrepancies re fraud etc. This does seem odd. Either way, you're entitled to your leave.

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