To want more people to sign the petition?

[Somethingneedstobedone]

Allow students to be taken out of school for two weeks a year without penalty? I know each school is different but resent government’s directive to toughen up on attendance really grating on my nerves. Now, my children have 98% attendance, bar a few days for illness and docs appt I’ve always taken them on holiday during the break. However a lot of families simply cannot afford even a caravan break. A week in Cornwall in a caravan for £2000?!? Really?! A lot of places in the world do not have such strict guidelines and I, for one, has always been an A+ student even though we were travelling a lot. So I find the argument that 100% attendance is the main factor for children to succeed in their education pretty silly. Parental involvement is by far the most important factor. But teaching people how to be involved in their children’s life whilst working the said people to the ground is too tough. Rant over, thank you for reading 😅

That other thread you linked to wasn't asking the same question. They were wondering, given the already tough processes around attendance in England, if the government's latest campaign was appropriate or necessary.

There is a post pandemic attendance issue for sure, but the causes are complex and there are no clear answers.

Missing school for something optional like a holiday isn't the same issue as emotionally based school absence, unmet SEN needs etc. It just isn't.

@ImInACage firstly, I'm really sorry that happened to you and I'm glad the headteacher was able to exercise discretion.

They should be able to again. It shouldn't be a blanket policy.

It might surprise you to know that the vast majority of parents did not manage during lockdown.

You are living in a rarerified world of A star, highly motivated students with very similar parents.

Most children would suffer from having missed lessons and are not self motivated learners with the ability to catch up independently on what they have missed.

@ImInACage ooh that’s so tough! Sending you virtual hugs. I’m pleased to hear that your DC school handled it with discretion.

So it's also OK for an adult to do the same to their employer? Take random days off and holidays whenever they choose? That's not how society works. We co operate and make commitments to each other so everyone gets what they need (more or less, it's not perfect of course). Your children won't get far in later life if they let their employer down. Why teach them it's OK to do the same with school?

Also many parents who keep their children off are servicing their own needs, not their child's. It's right that schools are on top of these things- if not, only the parent has any influence or control and some parenting is misguided and / or abusive.

You don't 'own' your children, you care for them and guide them. But rightfully they have other guides and influences - school being the most obvious.

@Onelifeonly then we should really ask why children are not motivated. Why not? Curiosity is an inbuilt trait in human species why on earth wouldn’t want they to learn? Maybe it’s due to repetitiveness of the lessons? So that you go over the same things again and again? Maybe it’s due to same old schedule? Maybe it’s being under constant pressure burnout… hmmm

Oh the lockdown example was to show that you can have access to school teaching materials not to say that everyone managed brilliantly

Agreed.

Unless OP would be happy to commit to making up the lost teaching in her and the child's own time. Rather than expecting the teacher to plug the gaps.

So who gives a fuck about the children of the ones that wouldn’t, huh? 🤷🏻‍♀️

I think some people are completely naive in their thinking re how a class is taught.
Somebody upthread said about there's not much difference reading a text book on holiday than in a classroom. Unbelievable. That's not generally how it works!

I have worked as a teaching assistant in an infant school and it's so detrimental to the child to miss a week or two of school.
Just an example, in an English lesson, we might have started studying a new fiction book and the whole week/term will revolve around that. That would include looking at the characters, creating a story map, doing a big write etc etc.
If a child has missed two weeks of all that input then that's hugely detrimental to not only the child but the staff as well.
I'd be expected to sit 1-1 with that child and do as best a catch up as I could but it wouldn't be anywhere close to the input that the other 29 children had had. Subsequently, the children who needed more support were sat without an adult to support them and if the teacher could do that then the next layer of support children wouldn't have an adult with them, just because little Jonny's parents wanted a holiday in the sun in term time.

Oh and during Covid, the online learning in my school was nothing like a teaching day in school and the amount of children that didn't submit ANY work, or very little was staggering!

So no, I'm against that petition.

I'm really glad I don't seem to know anyone like the angry people on this tread in the real world! 😂

I regularly hear of folks holding similar views to the OP - I am talking about a variety of people from different backgrounds with different levels of education and different family set-ups (including teachers) and I have never heard anyone express disproval of term time holidays.

In fact, I can include in that, any time it has been mentioned in the local newspaper, you can bet nearly every single comment would also be on that 'side'.

This place sometimes 😂

You are simply not going to solve the problems of the UK education system (which largely result from poverty: the most obvious monetary kind plus poverty of aspiration, poverty of provision, poverty of imagination) by tinkering about with holidays.

I don't disagree that there are loads of problems.

Children who are self motivated enough to teach themselves from a textbook on holiday (I was one!) are not a problem and certainly not THE problem. They will be OK.

@Firecarrier would you say that UK society is quite prone to a big gap between "the official way things get done" and the "actual way things get done"? Because I would. It's not surprising it's confusing to people who didn't grow up here.

Regarding Mumsnet, posters here are more educated than UK average. Of course you're going to find people with strong views about education.

we kind of established that those kind of families would take their children out term time nonetheless.

@Firecarrier right?! I can’t say I’m shocked but is it full moon or smth? 😅

I think also that 234,274 signatures and counting kind of speaks for the need itself. You have to start the conversation somewhere that’s how negotiations work.

But when I teach a class minus a child on holiday, they have missed a sequence of lessons so when they return, I need to continue to teach my class the next step of the sequence whilst simultaneously catching up the holiday child with the missed steps of the sequence so they can then be taught with their classmates again.
The same thing happens when a child is ill, but children are rarely off sick for a full 2 weeks that you'd like to go on holiday for.

Check the area you are in. My local area says you can take kids out for up to 10 sessions without being fined. So that's 5 school days. 2 sessions is 1 day (morning registration and afternoon registration)

So book to go 4 or 5 days before school holidays start

My taxes are paying for your child's education. I expect you to make every effort to ensure they attend every day. If you want to pick and choose when they attend, then take them out of state school and pay for private education.

The thing is, OP, is that you do sound like a responsible parent. Unfortunately, not all parents are like you, and there are a significant number of parents who need a financial and legal 'reminder' of the importance of education.

Well you can only go by your own experiences of your friends and where you live I suppose? I only know 1 friend who has taken her children out in term time. The rest wouldn't dream of it. Neither of these things proves anything. 🤷

No I don't agree so won't be signing. Currently the small number of parents who want to take their kids away will go on holiday and pay the fine (or not - it isn't strictly enforced and seems to be the luck of the draw at all of my kids' schools). The fine was brought in precisely because there were so many children being taken out of school.

If you make it legally acceptable to take two weeks off every year then everyone will do it, and this includes families who won't go on holiday but can't be bothered with school so will leave their kids sitting at home for a fortnight. You live a very charmed life if you think all parents are involved with their kids' education and will help them catch up.

It would be an absolute nightmare for all of the subject teachers to have every child behind with two weeks of various stages of the curriculum.

Make it one week and I'll sign. There should also be a petition to create a max percentage that holiday companies/hotels/tour operators/airlines can increase prices during peak times or school holidays. Of course they should be able to cash in on a popular time but there absolutely should be a max percentage

Well you have to start somewhere…

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/jan/14/why-140000-pupils-are-severely-absent-from-school-in-england-and-what-we-can-do-about-it

Thought provoking read from The Guardian

Except that in our school the kids who are taken out for term time holidays now are very often the same kids who do no reading at home, who don't do homework and whose parents don't turn up to maths and phonics sessions. Those kids are already disadvantaged and if you think Teachers aren't spending time working with those children individually, on top of teaching the class, in an attempt to close the gap you are very much mistaken. Teachers absolutely do differentiate work for individual students according to their needs, it's frustrating that those most insistent that taking kids out for weeks at a time has no impact so often have no clue about how children are actually taught.

How did we all manage in lockdown? Some kids thrived but for a lot of kids it was disastrous.