AIBU to not understand the numbers on my DD's school report?

UndertheCedartree · 2024-05-02T20:35:52+00:00

I'm so confused! My DD is in Y7. She started the school a term late so this was her first report/parents evening. I asked some questions about the grading but honestly I left more confused. On her report there are numbers from 1+ up to 4. There is a number for a target and then a number from her latest assessment. First of all I'm so confused where they get the targets from. They told me they are from data they get from her Primary school but lots of the subjects they didn't do at Primary school or not much anyway. I asked if 4 is the highest (like an A) and I was told a 4 is where they should be at the end of Y7 then a 5 is for the end of Y8. So does that mean my DD is really behind if she isn't close to 4s? And if so I don't get it as she was only a little behind in Maths at Primary. And why are her teachers so happy with her if she is doing so badly! 😂 It's all such a mystery! What happened to ABC! It's all about data now, but I just can't get my head around it. So if they set her target as say 2 and she then scores a 3 on her last assessment they will say she is 'exceeding' and all is fantastic but actually it is a whole point away from where she should be at the end of Y7 so surely eventually it means she'll be way behind in Y11 and fail all her exams?

Minister01 · 02/05/2024 21:42

I’m not quite sure the formula but a student who is average in Maths/English at primary will have targets for average grades in Geography/PE.

They’re also used as a bench mark to access the teachers.

If you can afford it/support your own DD in maths it’s worth it. If she hasn’t quite grasped the basics in maths she’s going to really struggle to keep up with the new content.

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 02/05/2024 22:10

Minister01 · 02/05/2024 21:42

I’m not quite sure the formula but a student who is average in Maths/English at primary will have targets for average grades in Geography/PE.

They’re also used as a bench mark to access the teachers.

If you can afford it/support your own DD in maths it’s worth it. If she hasn’t quite grasped the basics in maths she’s going to really struggle to keep up with the new content.

I have no problem in helping my DD and have put a plan in place with her Maths teacher.

Her P.E teacher told me to ignore the numbers as they aren't relevant to P.E.

She has a target of 4 for R.S (her highest target) but barely did any of that at Primary. But I was told in Technology, Science and English that she is excelling but her grades are 3+ or 3. Her Technology teacher told me she'd never seen a child in Y7 with such ability! But yet she's not reaching the level for end of Y7? Or are they not expected to be getting 4s yet? Lots of her grades are 2s and Maths 1+

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PuttingDownRoots · 02/05/2024 22:16

Each school will do it differently. But at my DDs...

The Target increases by one each year. So 4 at end of Yr7 will equate to 9 at Yr11. A 3 will be on track for a grade 8 etc.

Evvyjb · 02/05/2024 22:19

Thank the government for doing away with KS3 levels. Every school now does its own thing, so noone really knows...

Add in the "projected progress" for all subjects based on KS2 SATS (benchmark against which results are judged) you have a total mess.

AuroraHunter · 02/05/2024 22:20

Our secondary have 4 grades. They roughly translate to

Emerging (working below the expected level)
Developing (working at the expected level)
Securing (working at the high end of the expected level)
Mastering (far exceeding the expected level)

So a 3 or a 3+ would be a really good result for this stage at year 7. Because there is still an entire term of learning to be done.

If her maths (or any other subject) is at a 1, then maybe do a bit of extra practice or sit with her whilst she does her homework and talk through the questions with her.

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 02/05/2024 22:29

PuttingDownRoots · 02/05/2024 22:16

Each school will do it differently. But at my DDs...

The Target increases by one each year. So 4 at end of Yr7 will equate to 9 at Yr11. A 3 will be on track for a grade 8 etc.

Ok, that makes a bit more sense. So she doesn't have to have a 4 to be on target for a good grade at GCSE.

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 02/05/2024 22:32

Evvyjb · 02/05/2024 22:19

Thank the government for doing away with KS3 levels. Every school now does its own thing, so noone really knows...

Add in the "projected progress" for all subjects based on KS2 SATS (benchmark against which results are judged) you have a total mess.

The thing I've noticed about this report compared to my school days is it is all just based on data. No personal comments, no explanation - just data. We got personal comments at the parents evening but a lot about data too!

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AllProperTeaIsTheft · 02/05/2024 22:32

Do they honestly not include an explanation of the grading when they send out the reports? That's pretty useless of them tbh.

catherinewales · 02/05/2024 22:36

Could it possibly be that she's on track to do a 4 by the end of year 7. I know in my daughter's primary they said she was behind at the beginning but expected her to be at exceeding by the time she finished. I didn't understand why they marked her like that as that doesn't give them confidence at all.

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 02/05/2024 22:39

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 02/05/2024 22:32

Do they honestly not include an explanation of the grading when they send out the reports? That's pretty useless of them tbh.

It is, isn't it? Maybe it's so complicated they don't understand it either?! 😂

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 02/05/2024 22:40

catherinewales · 02/05/2024 22:36

Could it possibly be that she's on track to do a 4 by the end of year 7. I know in my daughter's primary they said she was behind at the beginning but expected her to be at exceeding by the time she finished. I didn't understand why they marked her like that as that doesn't give them confidence at all.

I don't think she can be in every subject but perhaps with the 3s?

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MsMuffinWalloper · 02/05/2024 22:41

DD's last school she was getting 80-90's in exams for y7 and 8. They switched to Cambridge something or other which was supposed to calculate expected grades at GCSE and she was given 4's! No explanation because it was "numbers only reporting" as the head of Academics helpfully explained. The teachers stopped writing anything at all so no child knew what they were doing wrong as no feedback could be given.

Thankfully moved her and she's expected 9-7s for everything now, as we suspected. Lovely detailed reports and advice on how to improve and what she is doing well.

Some schools make reports very confusing and change systems far too often so teachers can't even keep up!

MrsElijahMikaelson1 · 02/05/2024 22:43

Maybe just ask them? If you’ve had a parents evening with this report why didn’t you just ask “what does that mean and what does that equate to for the future?”

WindyRainySunny · 02/05/2024 22:46

No idea how your school's numbers work, but in terms of the predictions - every child who takes KS2 SATS in Y6 is then tracked through to Y11 and the results they get for all their GCSEs. The data boffins look at say a child who got a 7 in GCSE geography, and then look back at what their KS2 scores were for Maths Reading etc. They do this for all GCSE subjects and all the children and so can then predict what a child who got a 105 in Maths and 109 in reading at KS2 will get in all their GCSE subjects. It's also corrected for sex and month of birth. It's a very blunt tool, but gives the best guess for a predicted GCSE grade.

LittleOwl153 · 02/05/2024 22:48

If her targets are 3s and 4s I'd be more interested in where she's working in relation to those targets than what the numbers actually are in yr 7. Then as she progresses is she making progress - so a subject she has a 2 in now, is it a 2+ by end of Yr 7, a 3 in yr 8 etc.

A 3 in yr 7 would suggest an A grade target for yr 11 on 'old money' (7/8/9 in gcse grades now) atan increase of 1 grade a year which is the 'expected' progress.

MsMuffinWalloper · 02/05/2024 22:49

WindyRainySunny · 02/05/2024 22:46

No idea how your school's numbers work, but in terms of the predictions - every child who takes KS2 SATS in Y6 is then tracked through to Y11 and the results they get for all their GCSEs. The data boffins look at say a child who got a 7 in GCSE geography, and then look back at what their KS2 scores were for Maths Reading etc. They do this for all GCSE subjects and all the children and so can then predict what a child who got a 105 in Maths and 109 in reading at KS2 will get in all their GCSE subjects. It's also corrected for sex and month of birth. It's a very blunt tool, but gives the best guess for a predicted GCSE grade.

That is interesting. So they don't take the end of term exams into account at all just go on SATs? Dd passed her 11+ in y6 but I don't remember ever being told what she got for SATs as no one cared apart from the school!

catherinewales · 02/05/2024 22:51

It's definitely worth asking if that's how it's worked @UndertheCedartree might make more sense that way. It is confusing though.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 02/05/2024 22:52

WindyRainySunny · 02/05/2024 22:46

No idea how your school's numbers work, but in terms of the predictions - every child who takes KS2 SATS in Y6 is then tracked through to Y11 and the results they get for all their GCSEs. The data boffins look at say a child who got a 7 in GCSE geography, and then look back at what their KS2 scores were for Maths Reading etc. They do this for all GCSE subjects and all the children and so can then predict what a child who got a 105 in Maths and 109 in reading at KS2 will get in all their GCSE subjects. It's also corrected for sex and month of birth. It's a very blunt tool, but gives the best guess for a predicted GCSE grade.

I'd love to be described as a data boffin - however what actually happens is that you plug all the results sets from the MIS into another package that conveniently contains the formulae to do the calculations for you.

SLT then come knocking to ask for you to check for errors because they don't like what they see and you have to explain it to them as well. and they still ask you to check it all again in a fortnight, even if you've doubled up by creating a separate database package from another five prediction and monitoring apps that assorted staff have bought without checking that you already monitor everything...and then ask why they don't exactly match or why they do because they don't like the results...

EnglishBluebell · 02/05/2024 22:56

@NeverDropYourMooncup My god I misread that as MI5

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 02/05/2024 23:08

MrsElijahMikaelson1 · 02/05/2024 22:43

Maybe just ask them? If you’ve had a parents evening with this report why didn’t you just ask “what does that mean and what does that equate to for the future?”

It you read my OP you will see that I did ask but the answers confused me even more! And you only get a few minutes with each teacher so not time for too much discussion.

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 02/05/2024 23:11

WindyRainySunny · 02/05/2024 22:46

No idea how your school's numbers work, but in terms of the predictions - every child who takes KS2 SATS in Y6 is then tracked through to Y11 and the results they get for all their GCSEs. The data boffins look at say a child who got a 7 in GCSE geography, and then look back at what their KS2 scores were for Maths Reading etc. They do this for all GCSE subjects and all the children and so can then predict what a child who got a 105 in Maths and 109 in reading at KS2 will get in all their GCSE subjects. It's also corrected for sex and month of birth. It's a very blunt tool, but gives the best guess for a predicted GCSE grade.

Thank you, that's a very clear explanation. I naively thought the teacher would set the target after teaching them for a while. I get that side of it now.

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 02/05/2024 23:15

LittleOwl153 · 02/05/2024 22:48

If her targets are 3s and 4s I'd be more interested in where she's working in relation to those targets than what the numbers actually are in yr 7. Then as she progresses is she making progress - so a subject she has a 2 in now, is it a 2+ by end of Yr 7, a 3 in yr 8 etc.

A 3 in yr 7 would suggest an A grade target for yr 11 on 'old money' (7/8/9 in gcse grades now) atan increase of 1 grade a year which is the 'expected' progress.

Ok, I think I'm starting to understand it.

In terms of her goals she got a couple of 'exceeding', most were 'meeting' one 'developing' and 'cause for concern' for Maths (and P.E but the teacher said to ignore it.)

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Evvyjb · 02/05/2024 23:19

UndertheCedartree · 02/05/2024 23:11

Thank you, that's a very clear explanation. I naively thought the teacher would set the target after teaching them for a while. I get that side of it now.

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Well that would make SENSE. Instead we have students who have a GCSE target grade set for music and PE based on their spelling and maths in y6.

Thanks Gove...

Jointhecircus · 02/05/2024 23:24

My dd is in yr10 and I have never really understood the numbers on her report and the relationship between the targets and actual grades. And no, they have never explained it!

9 is the top grade at GCSE and presumably it’s all based around that system. If, as some posters suggest, they are supposed to improve a grade per year then that kind of makes sense. That would mean your DD is on track for an 8 in year 11, which is good.

My DD didn’t even do SATs as she was in lockdown in yr6 so not really sure what they’ve based hers on!

NeverDropYourMooncup · 02/05/2024 23:32

Evvyjb · 02/05/2024 23:19

Well that would make SENSE. Instead we have students who have a GCSE target grade set for music and PE based on their spelling and maths in y6.

Thanks Gove...

Show quote history

Yes, he's responsible for the situation where you had to explain to a member of SLT that, no, putting them in for GCSE PE was not going to guarantee a particular child a good grade due to the fact they were (select as applicable)

a. 19 stone
b. had a painful medical condition meaning movement/strength/stamina/coordination was making day to day life difficult, never mind playing in a team and competing
c. (the worst one of all) was currently undergoing chemo