To ask how to get kids interested in cultural experiences, new foods, etc

[PlainChipsandIpads]

Any ideas?

Kids seemingly uninterested in anything except trays of plain chips, devices, going to the supermarket, Subway, McDonalds or watching a film on the sofa.

Recently took them to London for the weekend for two very kid-centric exhibitions. On the first evening after a long drive and getting stuff settled in the hotel, we walked 20 mins from Old Street to Spitalfields, and the youngest (8yo) was asking to go back to hotel as legs hurting and bored, wanted to go on device (despite being on the thing for the entire nearly three hour drive into London). Ended up being carried on dad’s shoulders for remainder of evening which was cut very short in the end, with four of us then climbing up the walls in the family hotel room from 8.30pm. The whole weekend seemed to be punctuated by snacks as promise of chips at the next place and ice cream at the one after that seemed to the only thing motivating them to keep going. At one point (in Camden Market) I remarked to DH that it’s hard to tell if eldest (10yo - loves alternative and witchy/spooky stuff) was even having a nice time at all, which was a shame really as we were certain that she’d absolutely love Camden. We all had a good weekend overall, but it is rather disappointing to still need to seek out Gregg’s and rubbish fast food in London when there is such huge variety available. How do we live in a world where central London can’t compete with an IPad in terms of entertainment?

This weekend we’re planning to go to a street food market, which is being held in a complex with lots of little independent shops and boutiques, loads of outside seating, family friendly and craft stuff for them to do, etc. But I can already feel a little bit of anxiety about the fact that the kids are going to whinge the whole way through about sore legs or boredom, that the food has too many herbs on it, or the pizza crust has got (apparently inedible) bubbles on it, that they want to walk a mile back up the road to a grim looking newsagents that had some very faded fidget toys in the window instead of getting involved in making a terrarium or some other cool activity.

I just worry a bit for the youth of today, there’s a whole big wide world out there. Can anyone relate? Do you have any suggestions?

Were you into cultural outings, visits to markets and exotic food when you were a kid? I think you've forgotten what being a kid is like!

I know you weren't talking to me, but yes I was, and so were my kids. I'm aiming that you don't mean highbrow culture, if course, but different cultures and child friendly museums, sure. And I think loads of kids are. Don't think so little of them.

Cooking the food with them and making a bit of an event of it is good. We did a “pick a country, cook the food from that country and watch a film from the country (or set in the country)” thing, made sushi with them (crab sticks not sashimi grade tuna), made pizzas for Italy, Thai curry paste, Vietnamese spring rolls, things they can customise a bit. It was a lot of fun (kept us entertained over lockdown and we carried it on afterwards).

Do they know the plans and what they're going to be seeing and doing in advance?

Or are they just blindly following not knowing what to expect?

I am an anxious person and so very much the planner of days out and holidays. That planning and knowledge and control means I can be positive and not anxious.

My eldest is very similar and since I started including her with all the plans, letting her decide with me what we will be seeing/doing/eating and in what order she's much more engaged as has some ownership over the situation. As for tired legs/snack bribery we've always had lots of days out so they're used to a lot of walking.

We have always been big into learning/talking about/visiting different cultures etc so that's less of an issue. DC love lots of different cuisines so generally in any city or town we'll find something suitable.

Sometimes that's exotic sometimes it's a McDonald's.

Do you plan these trips together and plan things the kids enjoy? My DC is similar age and would like markets, he is interested in the science museum, natural history museum, Tower of London or the Lego shop. We discuss what we want to do and look at a book or the website in advance. You have a ton of more child friendly things in London than Spittalsfield. But sounds like you have bigger issues here if the kids are only interested in screens.

As for food, you are the adults. Why do march them to Greggs when you have a million options in Camden? Get them to look at the stalls, to try something new or treat them to something special (like going to Itsu for sushi) and get them excited about it.

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If you're asking what's going to happen to this generation. Well that depends entirely on whether they have parents who are prepared to be unpopular, and to recognise that actually THEY get to decide what and where to eat, not the kids. And who take the screens away after a defined period (no more than an hour).”

exactly this. Kids need to learn from you and you need to set the boundaries and rules. (You and the DP of course) you are not doing them a favour by letting them have unlimited screen time and beige food only.

I dunno...you can't force them to like stuff, and TBH even one exhibition is one more than my 13yo would ever choose to see. It is of course ok to say "we're going to do X because it's my turn to choose, and I'd like you not to moan the whole time" but you might never get proper buy-in from them. Let them have a cake in the cafe afterwards for tolerating it, but DO NOT TELL THEM THIS AT THE OUTSET, otherwise all you will hear is "when are we having cake?".

I think you're gtting a bit of a hard time OP! My DC are the same age and we also don't live in London (anymore, left when DC were very small) and don't have a wide range of cuisuines available easily locally. I feel like Covid lockdowns meant we missed a couple of crucial year's of cultural and culinary acculturisation. We took ours to galleries and museums and whatnot loads when they were smaller, but got out of the habit once life opened up again. Now it's a bit like pulling teeth. And DH and I are cultured people who both love food!

I agree that it's about making it more regular and less of a big deal and probably taking the pressure off food wise. We're really struggling to broaden the tastes of our 8yo in particular. But I figure as long as he's regularly exposed to new things (even if he choses to eat plain pasta) then eventually he'll get more willing to try it and enjoy it. Galleries and stuff - mine moan at the suggestion but almost always have a great time once we're there. Shopping - not so much, they both find it boring (I do too) and it ends up with them endlessly begging for me to buy them shit they don't need. And moaning about walking - always, but I just try to ignore it.

I think you are being a bit harsh on yourself here. I have plenty of memories of being "dragged" to museums, places and walks as a child. Totally unwilling and presumably with a high whinge rate. All things I love now, I just needed to grow into them. You are providing experiences for them to remember in future and take inspiration from.

Oh gawd there are some proper sanctimonious mums on this thread! It's fine, it's normal, most kids don't enjoy being dragged through markets and museums. You have to intersperse it with fun stuff so it's tolerable for everyone. I would have given mine 2.50 at Camden and that would have kept him occupied looking for ways to spend it. Is it bribery? Yes. Do I care? No.

Last weekend we met up in London with my sister and her kids. They live in another foreign city. These kids are well exposed to culture. Guess what they all enjoyed?? Playgrounds, boat rides, street performers, double decker buses, crepes and pizza. In London you can do amazing food with a side of plain noodles (Chinatown) cultural sights next to playing fields, hear music outdoors so kids can run around... Don't make the hard bits the destination.
I think good parenting advice is to find a way to say yes. My kid is incredibly fussy, so what. That's not anyone's moral failing. He will tell you he loves borough market but he's only ever had chips. It's fine, I don't expect him to like what I like but equally I'm not going to go to McDonald's on a city break.

In short, lower your expectations and offer more bribes 😁

I think you've had some good (if slightly smug) advice on here and some absolutely terrible advice too.

It is not helpful to ban "screens" in my opinion, and much of the discourse surrounding them is so much hysteria. Certainly don't ban them or insist they come off the screen this instant because I said so. When in an unfamiliar environment, kids need some familiarity and downtime, which their favourite videos can give them. When our kids were little we took a while to accept that Bob the Builder had to come on holiday with us, but (apart from his parents who were suddenly wearing sunglasses and babbling about San Marco) it was the only fixed point in our six year old's life. Very important if the streets are full of gondolas and crowds and unpredictable experiences.

Food is very important for a lot of children. If everything is strange and different all at once that's too much for most kids (most people actually but adults know what to expect more).

Imagine yourself on a day out that's some way out of your comfort zone. Not terrible but nothing you've ever thought of doing (eg reenacting the Battle of Naseby in a huge field full of people who do that kind of thing for fun). What would you need to help you get through the day and find the enjoyment? For me, I'd want to know where I can sit down and is there any time set aside to get a decent cup of tea? I'd want someone to explain what I'm looking at and how long it will go on for. If my needs are met with empathy and understanding, I can probably stand quite a lot of musket fire and maybe get a lot out of the day. If I were to be marched around to someone else's timetable with no consideration, I'd close down completely and just be a bit of a burden. Both I and the imaginary Civil war enthusiast who brought me would have a miserable day.

If you do things regularly with the children, they will get used to walking more, trying new things and being present in the moment. But don't push it too far. And sometimes it will just all go wrong for no reason because someone is tired. One of my kids once googled for museums we could visit on the way to the ferry and then when we got there, asked for the tickets in french. We spent over an hour looking at cider presses and agricultural equipment. But on another day the same child refused to look at Stonehenge and cried until we got back in the car. But refused to walk there because it was too far.

I like museums and nice markets, thats the entire reason I do anything I can to avoid taking our children, I want to enjoy it, I don’t want to be wrangling two kids.

Food is a different issue, you don’t need to leave your house for that. We eat mainly south asian food, I can only think of one south asian dish my son will turn down. Our eight year old doesn’t actually like chips, he thinks they’re boring and don’t taste of much as he’s been raised on flavour. He will sometimes eat them with friends as he feels left out not liking them.

With museums and cultural experiences, try showing them where you're going and figure out one thing that they would really like to see.
For example, mummies or Samurais at a museum, a famous painting in a gallery and go to see that particular thing but stop for a few interesting things you come across.
What helps is getting rid of iPads and gaming and get them watching films and tv.
Many kids like shows like Horrible Histories so that can help to get them interested in things they might come across in museums or castles.

Op London is hugely overwhelming for small dc, one of mine always moans and yes unfortunately the promise of an ice cream keeps them going.

However, introducing new stuff happens gradually, one of mine always tried stuff the other it's hard work.

Baby steps, lay out food like tapas at home... Lots of different picks etc, gently encourage trying, keep exposing them like you have.

Again one of my dc never looks like she's having fun because she's intensely Aniston it and later will say it's amazing.

Don't need disheartened and keep going (we also let youngest dc take their time scooter into London?)

@deplorabelle what a fab post and analogy 🤣🤣 battle reenactment of naseby🤣🤣

The things that make trips like this easier for us are:

Talking about what's going to happen in advance, so the dc have pictured it mentally.

Keeping expectations low about how much "boring" (to kids) stuff is realistic. We've done many holidays to interesting locations but accepted that half the day would be free play around the pool. In London, we'd do half a day doing interesting stuff then hit one of the big playgrounds, or somewhere like the wonderlab at the science museum where they can run about a bit and play.

Entertain dc most of the time - we play eye spy, 20 questions etc whenever we're walking somewhere. If we're at a site, I'll have looked up a couple of things the dc have to find. Being busy reduces moaning I think.

Remove pressure about food. If I want to eat somewhere I think the dc won't be onboard with the food, we get the dc a snack so they aren't starving, and then make a deal to try the food, and we'll stop at greggs after if they don't like it.

Personally we don't limit screen time particularly. We also build some free screen time into each day, maybe chilling in a hotel room for an hour before going to eat.

I think you need to work with their mum on rules around screen time and junk food. Maybe setting it just a little less than they have now but then sticking to that over the next few years.

London is exhausting, I think you might have overly high expectations.

A bit of boredom is a good thing though!

Youtube travel vlogs!

My children love them.

the truth is he would rather be at home or in a friend's house or in the local park we have been to 10,000 times, playing football or Nintendo and eating crisps. The same is true of 99% of the children I know

Totally agree - it's finding a balance and I don't actually have a problem with devices on holiday but not during the daytime.

I have never been massively into art and culture, some things appeal to me and others don't, and I don't really see the problem with that. For example, the National Portrait Gallery (and its equivalent in Edinburgh) are of far more interest to me than normal artworks. I also really liked a gallery in Oslo because it had paintings that appealed to me. I think the key is to mix it up and do different things. And London has the advantage of lots of free stuff even though many entrance fees are ludicrously expensive.

Also agree with classical music - there are great concerts aimed at kids. Did I ever take my son to one? No. Although I did try to get tickets for the Dr Who proms one year. But you can always play it in the house. Classic FM has popular classics as well as more highbrow stuff.

A bit of realistic expectations combined with modelling and exposure on a day to day basis. We live just outside London so DC think nothing of a day trip there to go to a museum/theatre/boat ride/park etc. However we do go places according to their interests - they would drive me crazy at some exhibitions or galleries because they are just not interested. When visiting markets, they could stand for hours watching the street artists doing paintings but less interested in other aspects. We always include a visit to outdoor play areas in the Summer, would limit time in places like Camden Market and expect them to keep demanding food and snacks.

They wouldn't bat an eyelid at the prospect of walking all day because they are used to it - we have been doing these trips since DC2 was 3 without any buggy so they think nothing of it.

They would not ask for screens because they don't usually get them. If were in another city and out for the day, they may get fed up and ask to go elsewhere/for a snack but the thought of going somewhere to be on a device doesn't cross their mind because they have never had that option.

They don't appreciate street food in the way we do and aren't particularly experimental with taste but would not demand fast food because it is not something we eat. They would eat what we have chosen because that is the norm and ask for the usual ice cream etc

It is much harder if they are not your children and you haven't brought them up but does come down to what they are accustomed to and exposed to on a daily basis

Get them involved in planning trips and also get them involved in cooking.

They are old enough to cook a meal for the family between them maybe once a week.

A bit off-topic but this question has made me think about just how much richness of experience is out there pretty much free of charge - lots of galleries and museums are free, you can switch on the radio and hear some of the greatest music ever composed, find videos on YouTube etc of quality TV dramas and great films from the past, walk in the countryside with a map at no further charge.

All you need is to pay for transport, which may be beyond some people's means, but is probably only as expensive as some less culturally-rich choices you could make.

This is something we take for granted and we shouldn't. It's one way that we're luckier than any previous generation. No, I can't afford to go to the live theatre or opera, but I can access these things in other ways.

For anyone saying 'What an elitist, old-fashioned take on culture!' I'd say: I'm not rubbishng contemporary culture/music etc - but children will have no problem accessing that. It's giving them an introduction to the other stuff that gives them huge privilege which will enrich their lives at no, or very little, cost.

We have to include the children in planning. So we're going to Paris next. We watched some youtube videos of Parisians talking about their favourite things to do, looked at maps and websites and then everyone picked a few things that they'd like to try and do/see.

Dc1 (9) wants the Eiffel tower and the maritime museum and to try snails
Dc2 (almost 6) wants to visit Versailles, try Angelina's hot chocolate and eat pastries

Both of them want the catacombs and Galerie de Paléontologie et d’Anatomie comparée (as do I). We also have to fit in Disneyland.

Then when we arrive, we will have a clear plan of we are doing this, then this, then this etc including when snacks and downtime will be available. Whilst the idea will to be to try new things, I'd rather we compared differences in McDonalds than they didn't eat. Checking menus in advance really helps mine for other restaurents though. It seems to take the pressure off. Also for trying stuff at home before trips, having a sharing plate of new stuff has worked brillantly for us. So plate of individual food that they are comfortable with and then plate or plates in the middle with "new" things for people to help themselves. Dc1 has really expanded what he'll eat this way because it's not on his plate so therefore not stressful.

With the walking, having checked that the shoes fit properly, under no circumstances would we be carrying our 5 year old let alone the older one. Having break stops helps though, we usually do maps in advance using landmarks so they know it's another 5/10 mins etc.

For a lot of major museums, you can download childrens trails in advance or they have specific apps aimed at children. For example I want to go to the Louvre, so I've already shown them some of the art I want to see and why I want to see it. Dc1 in particular needs to understand the plan to feel comfortable, especially when another language is involved. It's also compromise on our part. I could happily spend all day in the Louvre. Dh and the dc less so, so I figure out my must sees in advance and where they are within the museum to save time.

Also fitting in "chill" time is important. We like hotels/campsites with pools for that reason.

But also it's practice I think. We live between two Scottish cities and we regularly do a day in "town". Walking between museums/touristy things and having lunch in different places. That way it's not alien when you remove them further from their comfort zone.

I've never allowed screens in the car (it's either music where we take turns to pick, an audio book, reading or quizzes) so they don't ask. Neither do I allow them at the table. They draw or colour in to decompress.

For us, it's basically removing stressors as much as we can by giving options and choices. Finding playparks, having ice creams and setting clear objectives and time limits. Compromise has been tricky for me too. I'd happily sight see from sun up til sun down but that just doesn't work for us as a family. However mixing museums etc with parks, the pool, snack food options and more formal dining does.

@CoffeeCantata lovely reminder. There's so much out there you can do on a small budget.

Op you can't go suddenly from the life you've described they're used to, to a full on weekend of constant activity.
Start small with local attractions, walks, playground, swimming, games in the park.
Go for walks for treats and play some 'would you rather' games as you walk along.