AIBU to hope that able bodied people will support disabled people against the tory attack on PIP?

[Blackcats7]

I have just been reading posts from many terrified disabled people on a facebook group I belong to.
People are afraid for their lives after the government's recent announcement to stop huge numbers of people with mental health issues qualifying for PIP anymore.
This attempt to scapegoat disabled people has a long history in the tory party and is popular with their traditional core but the attack on PIP is a new low.
Even those claiming PIP for other reasons think they will be the next target and that the tory aim is to pretty much eradicate any support for us with the half hearted usual disguise of "concentrating help on those who need it most" when they know they can't get away with saying what they actually are doing.
Disabled people have votes too (being housebound I thank goodness for postal votes) and I think this current tactic will have a big influence on how those votes are used but my question is how many able bodied people will take this attack on us into account when it comes to the election?
Should this nightmare come to pass there will be blood on government hands because I have no doubt people will die bearing in mind the targets are people with mental health problems and the tory propaganda that they are removing a right to benefit from those who feel a little bit depressed and anxious about life as most people will at some point or another is utter nonsense. Claiming PIP is extremely hard and requires a very high bar to succeed, especially for mental health. Popping to your gp for some anti depressants would not cut it.
So we need your support.
YABU we aren't that bothered or think the govenment is quite right to stop you scrounging bastards
YANBU this is disgusting ableism and we have your back

I know, I’m talking about what I think it should be, not what it is. I think it should be means tested. There’s limited money and someone on £100k for example doesn’t need it. Anyway, it’s not for me to decide, looks like Labour will also be making changes to PIP and other disability benefits if they get in so something will be done.

A return to means tested DLA linked with jobseeker benefit is likely

DLA has been abolished for adults and will not return.

It was never means tested.

DLA, like PIP, was not an income replacement benefit.

DLA, like PIP, was never related to employment status or ability to work.

If you are going to comment, at least educate yourself so you can make informed comments.

PIP is for the chopping block regardless of who wins later this year

Evidence,?

Do you enjoy trying to scare vulnerable people?

Labour will not abolish PIP. I will donate £100 quid to your favourite charity if it does.

What they may reform is out of work benefits (although sadly even their own shadow ministers get PIP and ESA confused).

This thread is a fucking disgrace.

You realise how difficult it is to qualify? How much evidence is needed? The people fraudulently claiming will be minute, and ultimately, you have to accept that in order to help those that deserve it, some will inevitably slip through, it’s going to happen.

There’s so many people who seem to think every Tom, Dick and Harry are fraudulently claiming and it’s just utter nonsense.

Are you serious?

Disabled people face restrictions and costs that people without disabilities don't. It's not a choice.

I don't understand why people need this very obvious point explained.

I’m so worried this is going to push my daughter into crisis. She has a few conditions and has autism.She has tried to take her own life several times and ping pongs between different services. She struggles to manage emotions and needs to learn to recognise when things are too much ie pull back. She is still waiting for the treatment she needs.What job is going to hire her? If she is pressured to not recognise when things are tough and pull back the consequences are a massive worry.If she loses her pip it will be a big part of her income. She is taking so long to get well, partly due to crap provision the past few years. It’s a nightmare.

Who?

I've only ever seen very vulnerable people post with some awful stories. I can't see anyone being at risk. It's so very difficult to get they will undoubtedly be genuine.

Hopefully any shake up will encourage all those entitled that don't currently claim to come forward.

Bibnle636 I am so sorry. Please reassure your daughter that this is all desperate posturing by the Tories. An attempt to win back votes from the rabid Reform UK supporters.

It is. As were the last two.

People spout off without having a clue what they are talking about. It's embarrassing really.

Except there are also plans to scrap the WCA for UC, so it is something only people on PIP will get.
So get people off PIP... they also lose the extra UC health element, and therefor forced to work (if they can find work in 12 months.... then no money at all).

Means testing would run completely counter intuitive to what PIP is meant to be for. It is not an income replacement benefit. It is to meet the extra costs that being disabled brings

With absolutely no records or proof of those extra costs needed. It's absolutely bonkers.

I know many people who are claiming PIP and intricate details of their lives and finances, through one aspect of work that I do. Yes many have additional expenses...although I don't know anyone personally whose additional expenses actually equal the amount of PIP received. But there are many who, whilst disabled either don't 'need' the money (well paid spouse supporting them for example) OR whilst disabled, don't actually incur any additional costs. PIP is just applied for because their friend/nurse/psychiatrist told them they may qualify and it's extra, free money so why not?

By far the most senseless part of PIP is the motability scheme imo. Being disabled in many cases, even though qualifying for the highest rate, doesn't mean you need a brand new (unadapted) car. It's a total unnecessary waste in lots of cases.

Why are you so sure Labour won’t abolish it? They’ve already said they will be making changes. They don’t seem to shocked at the Tory plans and have said they will also be looking at disability benefits, and have the aim of getting people back in to work. Doesn’t sound too dissimilar to me.

Agree with this. In my work I see people often on the old ESA with severe disability premiums, all rent paid, council tax paid and full PIP which they neither need nor use. Had one young man with a mental health issue who rarely left the house, but equally he didn't spent anything to the point where the money just kept building up in his bank account to over 16k and he would then lose his housing benefit and esa and have to pay his rent again until it dropped then he could claim housing benefit again. We were in a constant spiral of repeatedly helping him to re-claim or claim different benefits as the system changes . All he spent was money on a couple of takeaways a week. He actually didn't need over £700 extra PIP money , he didn't pay for carers,. Even without the PIP money he had all rent and council tax paid and £200 a week to live off. It's madness. Now I'm not saying that's the same for everyone with severe MH issues as some will maybe want to go on holidays, have expensive hobbies which help them etc. I appreciate no easy answers but I think we need to acknowledge that not everyone has huge additional costs as a result of their disability.

Tory voters in my experience are more interested in tax cuts . Rather than public services .

I worked for DWP for many years. Talking to people claiming,especially those who were claiming for mental health related reasons , so many were waiting for treatment or the treatment they received was not suitable. Maybe investing more in mental health services would save money in the long term?

Why on earth would you assume there's no record of those additional costs? Do you think people pay for therapies/extra heating/specialised diets/carers etc..etc..in monopoly money that doesn't show up in bank accounts?

It's bonkers you don't realise this.

The criteria for a mobility car is being able to walk less than 20 metres. What sort of person begrudges someone who can barely move a lifeline?

What makes you qualified to judge its a waste?

I had a recent review and I have both physical and psychological difficulties. I had over 60 pages of medical evidence and my full medical history, and among other things it clearly mentioned suicidal behaviour over several years along with other mental health problems.

I scored 0 on all of the descriptors for psychological factors despite this.

There is absolutely no way anecdotal evidence would be taken into account for a PIP claim when they aren’t taking notice of extensive reports from medical professionals.

It’s a very difficult benefit to qualify for, and anyone who gets it is severely affected by their medical condition(s).

As PIP is supposed to be money to help cover the extra costs that come with being disabled or living with a long term health condition, why so much angst about the possibility of vouchers for services or expenses being provided instead.
My dsd gets PIP due to her enduring chronic anorexia. It covers (some) of the cost of her private psychologist. The NHS psychologist service where we live discharged her several years ago staying she was "too" sick for treatment.
Paying for this has saved her and enabled her to continue to fight for recovery. She now has a small part time job...in time she will return to the workforce we hope and be a tax payer, thus a contributor to the system that has supported her.
However, if her PIP was in form of vouchers for use against a private medical bill...we would be happy.
Or for example vouchers to use in a supermarket to cover cost of the extra food bills that come with refeeding and anorexic...fine too.
As we understand PIP is SUPPOSED to be for these expenses.
It's not just an added bit of income to cover basic living costs such as rent etc.
Why is it so bad for recipients to have demonstrate what the actual extra expense of being disabled is?
We hold government to account on what they spend our money on via the national audit office, shouldn't we hold individuals to account for money the state gives them for a particular purpose?

I had to gather loads of stuff including a covering letter from an nhs professional who insisted we should apply for it. Meeting minutes, diagnosis reports, Ed psych reports, prescriptions….It was the most arduous bit of paperwork I’ve done.

I cant vote either way because I see both sides. I do think the way disabled people are treated is abysmal and this is another example of that. On the other hand, the number of people claiming that they cannot work because of their MH is going up. I work in MH - most of the people I see are very genuine. And I also see a significant number of people who should not be on benefits but are gaming the system. It is really hard for me to sit in a session with one of these people (and they are usually really easy to spot) because of the impact it has on people who really do need to be on support. I dont know how you evaluate this well, but I do know what we have done before was not good. I am sorry you are worried, hopefully your health professionals will support you.

Because the management of it would cost ££££££ and be insanely difficult to actually do. The amount of disputes for each item would be insane.Also my dd needs if for all sorts of things, each person is different. You’d end up balancing hoards of vouchers that would differ each month.

I know a lot of my clients' families are bloody terrified at the moment of how the benefits cuts seem to be coming; plus things like the day centres (an absolute lifeline in keeping some people at home with their families rather than into residential placements) that are being closed; and other projects that would enable people to have some useful daily occupation and training that can lead to a job are being shut down or having funding slashed all over the place.

People are absolutely terrified - most of the families I work with who are supporting adult children with complex needs in terms of both physical and intellectual disabilities are not living comfortable lives and swanning about in fancy cars - they're just about scratching by in social housing, often with parents who are working opposite shift patterns to enable them to provide round the clock care, or parents who can't work because of unreliable carers; endless short notice medical appointments or things like day services reducing hours and closing. It is not some kind of splendid ticket to an easy life like the Tories are currently trying to paint.

There aren't enough jobs for everyone that wants them. Where do they think these jobs are going to magically appear from.
Perhaps the government themselves need to create more jobs.
As for the vouchers thing, don't worry about that it will never happy.
It's unworkable how would you implement that, and at what cost.
They just like to trot it out from time to time.

I see the Tory bot evening shift have clocked in..... 🙄

It’s not a disabled person’s fault they are disabled, they’ve already been dealt a bad hand and even if some do work, many can’t, or can’t do the jobs/ hours that that they enjoy and would enable them to earn more money and live comfortably. I can’t see why people begrudge a bit of extra money because they don’t ‘need’ every single penny. Get a grip. Are they not allowed any life above their needs? The jealousy is astounding. Would those people rather be disabled so they could claim all these ‘advantages?’ 🤣

I can’t see why people begrudge a bit of extra money because they don’t ‘need’ every single penny. Get a grip. Are they not allowed any life above their needs? The jealousy is astounding

You is just jealous, innit.

Strong argument.