AIBU to hope that able bodied people will support disabled people against the tory attack on PIP?

[Blackcats7]

I have just been reading posts from many terrified disabled people on a facebook group I belong to.
People are afraid for their lives after the government's recent announcement to stop huge numbers of people with mental health issues qualifying for PIP anymore.
This attempt to scapegoat disabled people has a long history in the tory party and is popular with their traditional core but the attack on PIP is a new low.
Even those claiming PIP for other reasons think they will be the next target and that the tory aim is to pretty much eradicate any support for us with the half hearted usual disguise of "concentrating help on those who need it most" when they know they can't get away with saying what they actually are doing.
Disabled people have votes too (being housebound I thank goodness for postal votes) and I think this current tactic will have a big influence on how those votes are used but my question is how many able bodied people will take this attack on us into account when it comes to the election?
Should this nightmare come to pass there will be blood on government hands because I have no doubt people will die bearing in mind the targets are people with mental health problems and the tory propaganda that they are removing a right to benefit from those who feel a little bit depressed and anxious about life as most people will at some point or another is utter nonsense. Claiming PIP is extremely hard and requires a very high bar to succeed, especially for mental health. Popping to your gp for some anti depressants would not cut it.
So we need your support.
YABU we aren't that bothered or think the govenment is quite right to stop you scrounging bastards
YANBU this is disgusting ableism and we have your back

I have had enough and have asked MNHQ to step in. This is getting out of control now.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/site_stuff/5066800-disability-hate-on-mn

My disabilities are physical, but I do get seen, medicated and monitored, so I suppose it’s easier for me to have evidence.

I'd be amazed if mnhq cared about the persistent denigration of the disabled now after the covid years when threads about how disabled people should stay indoors or else go to the back of the NHS queue if they got sick, and that any caution about sending their children to school should be met with the loss of their school place, etc, etc were ten a penny.

Such was the appetite for punishing those with disabilities that it completely reframed my regard for the general public more widely and I have to admit that I am relieved that my disabilities, for now, are typically invisible and I don't have to carry this social stigma day-to-day.

I know what you are saying, dessicated. But still thought I would try!

I'd agree partially in that there are far too many people claiming they have mental health issues and getting signed off/medication when it's normal stresses of life that everyone has, but I think that's a different issue.

I can't actively support as I have no intention to vote for any party but I do speak up when people lump in those on PIP (which I know is a bastard to get in the first place) with those who have a number of normal setbacks in life and label that as "mental health issues".

Nearly happened to me recently, an offhand comment about work being stressful to my gp and I was offered a 2 week fit note for work related stress immediately. I'd only mentioned that it was a bit busy!! That's what they should be tackling imo.

Tbh, mental health, depression, anxiety etc .....the meaning of these is completely diluted for me now.

there are far too many people claiming they have mental health issues and getting signed off/medication when it's normal stresses of life that everyone has,

How do you know this, have you reviewed every case personally?

This.

I think it’s basically all the conditions you listed that have transformed the benefit system over the last 10 years. Where it used to be to be used for people with clear and pathological disabilities, now it seems a lot of claims are for conditions which rely on self reporting. This means more cynicism has come in to play.

How does self reporting work when you need evidence? Even then they'll tell you it's untrue

(Source: letter from consultant plus doctors letter and told there's no medical reason why I can't drive and I don't need hearing therapy)

The evidence is self reported. What test is there for fibromyalgia?

I think what annoys working people, including working disabled people, is that some who are receiving disability benefits adamantly state that they can’t do any work of any kind, and are not open to trying. They may not have worked for years, and don’t accept that times have changed and there are more opportunities available, training courses etc. They don’t know that they can’t do anything if they haven’t tried! It causes resentment in people who are very disabled and do work.,

The. System. Is. Broken. And. Not. Fit. For. purpose. By. Design
Exactly that. The system is broken. We totally agree. But to say that this poor man died just because he wasn't recieving PIP is disingenuous and won't help the cause.

I’ve got no experience of claiming for mental health, but I would (seriously) imagine that it still requires more than anecdotal evidence
And again...I've never said ONLY anecdotal evidence.

What's the point of writing a post about what someone else wrote if it is to misquote what they've said?

I think PIP should be replaced with an out-of-work benefit, and support for people to work should be increased.

I applied for PIP for mobility issues (but got just under the threshold as my condition is not consistent each day) but I am able to work as long as it is from home, and not full-time. But do I spend money on my disability? Well, yes: mobility aids, taxis, shopping being delivered, private physiotherapy, counselling for my children who are my carers.

However, I don't need PIP because I earn enough working for myself. (I applied because charities relating to my condition had a campaign for more people to apply, as it's one of the government's main measures of how much the condition is affecting people.)

So no, I don't think PIP should be available to people like me, even though I am housebound most of the time.

@IClaudine Shouldn't Access to Work cover those costs? They used to cover taxis to the train station for me, as I wasn't allowed to drive due to my disability.

That said, like most people have said, I think the truth is somewhere in the middle but it's evident that any change will be on a very wide level, and that some people will be failed because of that. Any attempt to make criteria tighter will risk ending support for someone who does really need and deserve it, on a great scale.

It is a sad state of society when people vote purely on what effects them personally right now than having any responsibility for the greater good.

But it's naive to think that this hasn't been the case for years and years. Decision making around Covid is a brilliant example; and the fact that research since then has found that people who DID stick to the advised guidelines wouldn't do so again. It's a culmination of societal issues and the climate at the moment, but most people are out for themselves, whether that's through necessity or choice.

I think people resent ,others getting PIP, apparently without difficulty , which is supposed to be hard to get, when they don’t appear to need it

Completely agree.

How does self reporting work when you need evidence? Even then they'll tell you it's untrue
Self reporting works by using the correct jargon, with help now available to that aim.

Help is and should be available for those who indeed struggle to put their experience into words, who are illiterate, whose prospect of writing any such report sends them in panic attacks.

It shouldn't be used to ensure it is written in a way to put the anecdotal account into what would be a medical report.

Did I say everyone?

Please define normal every day stresses of life. Because currently I'm dealing with fallout from two bereavements, fighting homelessness and have lost my business and I'm currently supporting my elderly Dad who is staying with me due to fleeing DV from my elderly SM which is in no small part due to failings in the NHS. Those sorts of normal every day stresses? Because these are the things that can undermine mental health severely, I'm finding.

I've just spent two hours with my Dad on hold to Pension Credit before the call dropped out. He needs to report his change if circumstances (10days so far and no resolution in sight). Failure to report changes in circumstances is a bad thing. The office hours are 8am to 3pm week days. The claim is joint and in her name, her current mental state means she can't be relied upon to give him his half by cheque because he has been advised not to return to the property until they have stabilised her. Which renders him technically homeless as I can't house him when I hopefully move into a tiny flat in a few weeks time if the council pulls it finger out to support the move. Tough luck eh?

Now if it's this difficult to do something like this how difficult is it for all benefit recipients to keep up their commitments and complete admin tasks mandated by law? It's a massive shitshow and my patience is wearing thin.

I don't trust this lot not to come up with the voucher scheme and then have a load of family and 'mates' that quickly get into the voucher supply business so they can sweep up lucrative government contracts and make a killing, providing a substandard service for money they get for a contract that was never properly tendered to start with. Like PPE.

That aside, I actually don't think this is a genuine Tory policy anyway. I think it is a trap for Labour - because it leaves them in a bit of a 'damned (by some) if you, damned (by others) if you don't scenario when they get into government later this year.

Plus, the only card the Torys have to play now is a culture war card. Hence the uplift in news about immigration, sick note culture and now this.

It's not like they can point to a stellar 14 year record of achievements, not like they can point to exemplary standards of behaviour, not like they can point to their excellent selection of party leadership, not like they can refer to their prudent control of public finances, or even to the great success they've made of Brexit. What actually could they come out with to win an election that doesn't leave them open to the accusation that the probelm they are trying to fix is either

a) a new one, suggesting it started on their watch
or
b) an old one that they haven't been arsed to fix in 14 years

Nothing. So all they can do is try to convince people that the reason they are all struggled for a quality of life is because the family next door is their enemy.

Reposting this in the hope that people read.

Thank you for this post.

Don't worry, those of us with common sense understand. I'm an able bodied person with a full time job and this is something that I am happy to pay for via my tax.

Numbers of actual claims for PIP have gone down since the last benefits revision. Data has been found to corroborate that
NO IT HAS NOT!

YES IT HAS.

I support Pip getting an overhaul, it’s not fit for purpose and we cant afford to pay for everything for everyone. The limited money we have needs to be targeted at those who genuinely can’t work even part time, and enable them to have a decent standard of living, and not giving money to those who could work and help them in to work instead for example widening the access to work scheme.