AIBU to hope that able bodied people will support disabled people against the tory attack on PIP?

[Blackcats7]

I have just been reading posts from many terrified disabled people on a facebook group I belong to.
People are afraid for their lives after the government's recent announcement to stop huge numbers of people with mental health issues qualifying for PIP anymore.
This attempt to scapegoat disabled people has a long history in the tory party and is popular with their traditional core but the attack on PIP is a new low.
Even those claiming PIP for other reasons think they will be the next target and that the tory aim is to pretty much eradicate any support for us with the half hearted usual disguise of "concentrating help on those who need it most" when they know they can't get away with saying what they actually are doing.
Disabled people have votes too (being housebound I thank goodness for postal votes) and I think this current tactic will have a big influence on how those votes are used but my question is how many able bodied people will take this attack on us into account when it comes to the election?
Should this nightmare come to pass there will be blood on government hands because I have no doubt people will die bearing in mind the targets are people with mental health problems and the tory propaganda that they are removing a right to benefit from those who feel a little bit depressed and anxious about life as most people will at some point or another is utter nonsense. Claiming PIP is extremely hard and requires a very high bar to succeed, especially for mental health. Popping to your gp for some anti depressants would not cut it.
So we need your support.
YABU we aren't that bothered or think the govenment is quite right to stop you scrounging bastards
YANBU this is disgusting ableism and we have your back

This is also similar for ESA in terms of appeals.

I’d also like clear cut numbers - we’re often told “X number of people were found fit to work” but there’s never any follow up of “oh, but then X number were actually found not to be”.

Also the ‘error and fraud’ percentage should be split. I’d like to know how much of it is error and how much is fraud. My assumption is that the error is the higher part as I’m very sure if fraud figures had increased we’d hear about that!

If the government were actually remotely serious about helping more disabled people into work then the civil service wouldn’t have had arbitrary “x days in the office” brought back in. There would have been some nuance in which departments need to be in more and which are actually ideal for home working more.

They also would be discouraging big companies who are big donors (looking at you JCB) from scrapping all home working regardless of effectiveness.

So you are citing your anecdotal experience, pardon me for not accepting that. You appear to have zero basis for the claim too many people are claiming except just that you say so.

The TV licence comparison is ridiculous as that is a simple binary - people either have a licence or they don't; it's an insult to compare people claiming benefits as a result of mental health issues to that.

Very well said @PocketSand. Of course anxiety & depression increased post Covid, especially amongst the young who'd had their education back disrupted & also realised that the 'grown ups' were making it all up as they went along. I will also never forget the DNR Govt rule for Autistic people. They withdrew that latet but it was there for some time. Not too far from a 'useless eaters' label.

Seriously?! I work, my husband actually earns quite a lot, but without my PIP we would not be able to afford the vehicle needed to transport my wheelchair, without which I would be unable to work. I can either claim PIP while in work, or I can have it taken away, be unable to work as a result, end up on incapacity benefit, which would presumably mean I would be entitled to PIP again, so could get a motability vehicle again, which would then mean I could go back to work, which would then mean I lost my PIP again, and so the cycle would continue. How much do you earn that means you don't need PIP? Or are the costs relating to your disability not that high? If you're housebound a lot of the time could having some form of wheelchair/scooter and a WAV not change that? I get the top rate of both categories for PIP, so about £600 a month, and while it does make a decent dent in my disability related expenses, it doesn't cover it. My DH pays more than enough tax to cover it. I don't feel in the least bit guilty about claiming it. My disability has cost my tens of thousands over the years, probably more.

@ThreePointOneFourOneFiveNine
She didn’t qualify for PIP so it’s irrelevant what her costs are.

My dp is also disabled and does not qualify for PIP. Extra costs are significant and mostly transport related but add in taking an effective demotion at work to be able to continue.

The idea that PIP is to cover the extra costs of being disabled makes no sense. Many people are disabled but don’t meet the threshold for PIP and have to meet these extra costs themselves.

My disability 'costs' me about £500 a month I suppose (I forgot needing cleaners in the above!). But I work to pay for those costs. And in some ways, I feel as though it's not acceptable for me to feel that way?

Bearing in mind that the tax/benefit ratio has to come down, and playing devil's advocate a bit here, why should disabled people have their cars paid for to get to work, when non-disabled people don't (both often rely on their own transport)?

PIP. Is. An. In. Work. Benefit.

It is not an income replacement benefit. It is to help people with the extra costs that being disabled can bring. Employment status is irrelevant.

I've got your back OP. I hate the divisive crap the government are coming out with at the moment. They're trying to turn everybody against each other, using religion, colour, disability or whatever else they can find to remove the spotlight from their own abject failings and inability to govern fairly, humanely or effectively. Try to stay strong and as positive as you can because I honestly think there's no way they're getting in again and there's a silent majority out there who can see exactly what they're up to and have had enough of it.

I have stated this, time and again. I don’t think it fits the narrative.

Bearing in mind that the tax/benefit ratio has to come down, and playing devil's advocate a bit here, why should disabled people have their cars paid for to get to work, when non-disabled people don't (both often rely on their own transport)?aim PIP.

Non disabled people will very often have the option to use public transport, cycle or walk to work. People with restricted mobility that is severe enough to qualify for PIP mobility component will not have that choice.

Also, mobility cars are paid for by disabled people themselves. They use the PIP they receive to pay for the cars if they can afford to do so.

I've not once mentioned claiming benefits except to say I know PIP is a bastard to get.

You are massively misunderstanding me, I'm using claim as in "to state"

Edited to add - neither did I compare claiming benefits to a TV licence.

Do you not think disabled people have it hard enough without seeing ridiculous poll options labelling them scroungers that half of posters agree with?

Wtaf

Would you put something similar up for people of colour?

Non-disabled people only have those options in cities. In rural areas, they are not options.

What part of some disabled people have mobility problems that able bodied people don't is difficult to understand?

Motability is a charity. Paid for by the charity and the leasers.

It costs the government/taxpayer nothing The arrangement is that anyone getting full rate mobility component can lease the car.

They don’t own it, they can’t get back any deposit, they just use the car.

https://www.motabilityfoundation.org.uk/media/f42p5cgk/factsheet-3-how-the-motability-scheme-is-funded.pdf

If you live in a rural area you need a car to get to work, and nobody else pays for it!

Of course not every single able bodied person lives within commuting distance of their job. But many, many do. And many work from home now. But, those people could also choose to change their circumstances if they really, really had to.

Disabled people can't change their disability.

The devil's advocate argument about transport could be taken further.

Why should anyone get anything that they haven't worked to pay for themselves?

Obviously in the current economy it's because wages do not cover basic living costs for a vast number of people. A significant number of them have physical and mental disabilities that prevent them from working be it part time or full time. The argument that families and communities should support them is often trotted out, but those capable of "caring" also have to live and a dual household income is the gold standard now.

The government has a covenant with the people who vote it in. Part of that covenant has evolved into the provision of a safety net for people, often temporarily but sometimes permanently, paid for (allegedly) by taking taxes to support both general infrastructure (bins, policing, health services etc etc) and the safety net. Because it recognises we do not live in a free market capitalism economy and the markets fluctuate.

These days catching votes by demonising one tiny part of "spending" and vowing to give voters what the majority demand in the moment regardless whether it will help or harm the collective is the norm and technology and media has advanced in such a sophisticated manner the populous can be lead by the nose via algorithm in the desired directions. Data is one if the most valuable commodities in the world for business and politics which are now incestuously intertwined.

We are seeing rapid global destabilisation at a rate that previous provisions cannot keep up with, as far as I can see, due to many factors not least being the capitalisation on the instability which benefits a few and leaves countless as collateral damage.

Everything is out of whack and I can't see a good end to that.

The benefits bill is soaring and unfortunately it is unsustainable due to there not being enough taxpayers contributing to sustain this level of support. However this is NOT the fault of disabled people and they should not suffer. Instead of targeting those on benefits, we should think more about how our government absolutely wastes money. Ordinary people don't seem to get annoyed about BILLIONS being wasted on faulty PPE and all the money Boris et. al. funnelled to their mates during covid, literally bankrupting the country. MPs charge expenses to the taxpayers for ridiculous reasons. Big corporations pay minimal tax. I am certain that if the government didn't waste so much on utter nonsense and actually collected tax from billionaires, then there would be plenty for those who need benefits.

This.👍

No, but they could get a work from home job.

I have no problem with genuinely disabled people receiving help - to me that is what I’m happy to pay tax for.
I’m not happy to pay tax to fund ridiculous gender ideology projects in the NHS. I’m not happy to fund people staying at home to look after more children than they should have had. I’m not happy that too many people see benefits as a lifestyle.
Im also not happy that the very rich are getting richer by dodging tax. I’m not happy with the massive civil service pensions or people who milk the sick note system (I have one of these in my office - they recently went back ‘on the sick’ due to anxiety caused when they did turn up for work unannounced one morning to find someone hot desking on their computer - no joke)
I don’t know anyone who begrudges genuinely incapacitated people.

It is hard to get. I do one or two PIP applications most weeks, and have done for the last 6 years or so. Approx 40% of them are declined. Some of those decisions are overturned at the mandatory reconsideration stage, the rest go to appeal.

I have yet to lose a PIP appeal. The tribunals, which are made up of a judge, a doctor of some kind and a disability expert, have overturned every single PIP decision that I've put before them. The same is true for my colleagues, too, even the two that don't have a background in welfare rights work.

That's an awful lot of incorrect refusals on the part of the DWP. If PIP was "easy" to get, people who are entitled to it wouldn't keep getting turned down.

Oh yes, because there hasn't been a recent drive towards presenteeism as hollowing out areas full of offices empty of people during Covid didn't cause areas to die as there were no commuters to buy coffee and sarnies, go shopping in their lunch hours and to nearby pubs for after work drinking. Be interesting to see how it's affected public transport too.

The law of unintended consequences eh?