Dh and son not getting along

[nettlesoup22]

Dh and I have been together 6 years, married 3. We have a toddler together and I have a ds13 from previous marriage.
Dh and ds get along mostly but now ds is getting to the rebellious teenage years things are trickier.
There's a lot of attitude and rudeness from ds. To me it's fairly typical teenage behaviour. He's hormonal, self conscious and often fluctuates between being silly and giddy one minute and angry the next.
Dh doesn't have a lot of patience with the general attitude and laziness and they are arguing a lot. I mediate as best as I can because sometimes dh is right, ds is being rude, but I also feel like dh needs to cut him some slack too and change the way he responds to him. Less criticism, less telling off etc.
It's fucking draining being stuck in the middle of them. I've told them both in no uncertain terms that if it carries on we will have to live separately because it's not good for anyone. But I don't want that. Our marriage is good and I don't want my younger dc having divorced parents because of this.
I know the general consensus on MN is kids always come first. I agree with this and if things did get too much I absolutely would move out with dc.
But this isn't some new relationship where my bf isn't getting along with ds. We are a family and dh has been around more than half ds life. There just needs to be a bit more mutual respect and less alpha male attitude on both sides.
How do I make them see this? I can only see it getting worse as ds gets older. I love them both and would always advocate for my kids but I'm sick of being caught in the middle.

It will probably get worse, and then it will get better as DS gets older. I personally found 14 - 16 was the worst.

I also agree DH needs to row back. My DS and DH had some very scary clashes, both getting angry and both trying to prove a point. They were both at fault.

I spoke to them both separately. I told DH to leave the disciplining to me and I told DS that speaking to DH disrespectfully was not acceptable.

My DH did step back and leave it to me, and this did bring the tension level down.
They returned to their previous easy going relationship eventually.

I think it was the transition from child to adult that DH was having difficulty negotiating and working out what boundaries stayed, which ones got loosened and which ones went by the wayside. I am a "go with the flow" person, DH is a bit more black and white.

Yes this sounds a lot like dh and I. I'm quite chilled and have never had to discipline ds too much as he's always been a good kid. Dh is the type to demand respect which annoys me because he doesn't always give it out.

The worst thing is I speak to dh about it rationally (and sometimes angrily too) and he doesn't seem to think he's doing anything wrong. I've pointed out that our youngest will probably go through the same when they're older.

It's draining and upsetting. I'm on edge waiting for these clashes.

Men huh?

Could you have a chat to DS and say that you understand he is growing up and boundaries are changing, but DH is struggling with this. And you need DS's help to move things forward amicably.

If you can get DS to agree to try to keep calm and not do stuff to deliberate wind up DH, then maybe you can all have a chat over a pizza about things and give DS the opportunity to put his point of view.

But remind DS that you and DH have a point of view too, so there will have to be compromise on all sides.

It is hard, being stuck between two stroppy males, but if you can just be the voice of reason, they should hopefully fall in line!

Honestly... it's all very well saying they clash, but that kind of description implies a level playing field. Your DH is the adult, he should be being the bigger person here.

Dh is the type to demand respect which annoys me because he doesn't always give it out.

That's a big red flag, to me. Do you respect him, given that he is like this? Do you think he deserves respect from your son?

Yeah they might both be unreasonable but your DH is the adult and needs to either deal with things appropriately or walk away.

Some men are like this with their DS's, my ex was. It's around the time that the child starts maturing and having opinions of their own and they challenge their dad rather than worshipping the ground they walk on and believing everything they say.

It's not up to you to mediate between them. It may get better if your DH stops 'demanding respect' but as he's that type then sadly it will probably just get worse.

I agree with this.

Only abusive dads and step-dads seem to behave this way. Normally dads are able to strike a balance between discipline and patience.

I think you need to read DH the riot act that he is on his way to breaking up his marriage and his toddler’s home. Don’t make DH think it’s half on DS, as DS is a child.

I said this to him last night. However poorly ds behaves, he is still a child and he's at a difficult stage of life. Dh on the other hand is an adult who should know better.

It's heartbreaking to think of our family breaking up over this because behind the wind ups and the rows and the rudeness there is a lot of love between them. I don't think many women would be urged to split up with their partner if it was the child's bio dad that was clashing with them. But when it's a stepdad it somehow sounds like the easier option.

I really can't be arsed with another day of atmosphere. It's grinding me down.

This. 100%.
It is always the same type of mam ‘demanding respect’ and it is always the step child bearing the brunt of their bullying ways.

Yeah I agree, they nay be acting the same and equally responsible for the conflict but one is a child going through nassive hormonal changes and one is an adult who should have control of himself.

How does he expect DS to control his anger and frustrations when 1) he himself can't and 2) he's not teaching him how to.

My ex was my DS’ dad but he had a very old fashioned parenting style like his dad. I had older children and tried to explain it was just the teenage phase . I knew DS wasn’t a bad lad . Sadly my ex physically attacked DS after having a drink. I called the police and ultimately we moved out . My ex has spent years trying to repair the relationship with his son but the damage is done .

What kind of behaviours is your DS displaying specifically?

My stepdad was like this. I ended up leaving home at 17 because of it and still haven't really forgiven my mum for allowing it to happen. I appreciate now as an adult it was her husband and she was caught in the middle but since having my own DS it does hit home.

I'm sorry, I don't have any advice. It must be so hard for you. 💐

There’s clearly a gap in the market for support for men parenting teens, especially boys.

A neighbour’s son was moved out to relatives with social services annd police involved at this age. Ended her business (safeguarding issue).

Can you get him to read some books? Steve biddulph did a teen boys book I think.

I think where you went very wrong was marrying someone who 'got along mostly' with your child. I don't know what that means exactly but it doesn't sound like a good place to start from. Your child should have come first.

Dh is the type to demand respect which annoys me because he doesn't always give it out.

My dad was like that. My teenage years were spent arguing this very point. Then I went NC with him in my early 20s and have never regretted having him out of my life since.

Authoritarian parenting is a manifestation of controlling tendencies that they know they can't get away with elsewhere (though often it extends to their wife too).

If your H is giving constant negativity to your son, how the hell does he expect the child to respect him?!

I wouldn’t blame you one bit for putting your son first.

He'll tell him to shut up which dh takes particular offence to.

It's not a case of them constantly butting heads. Dh isn't 'mean' to him. For the most part they get along well and dh has helped with all the typical parenting things over the years / lifts, holidays, finances etc. He forged a matey relationship with ds early on because his bio dad is still very much on the scene and this has sometimes led to banter between them. But now it goes to far, ds admittedly becomes rude and dh comes down on him rather than trying to diffuse the situation.

If it were a simple case of they hate each other, I'd move out in a flash. But it's more complicated than that.

If it is poisoning the atmosphere for everyone, then you need to take action.

You need patience with teens as well as boundaries. Your partner shouting at/clashing with him all the time is not going to achieve anything.

Your partner is the mature adult and should be able to manage his emotions better.

I would have an honest chat with him and make it clear you are unhappy with the situation and that if he does improve you will have no choice than to rethink the relationship.

''Dh is the type to demand respect''.

You have to earn respect, you don't just demand it.

He is not your son's father to start with and him becoming impatient and angry all the time is not what a good role model does.

That's a big red flag.

I gave them both the opportunity to apologise and start over this morning. Neither would engage. I have told dh that he can pack a bag and go elsewhere tonight as I refuse to live in a toxic atmosphere and have my ds made to feel awkward too.
I don't think he thinks I'm being serious. He just huffed off to work. I am so upset it's come to this but dh won't recognise that as a grown man he is in the wrong. If he is willing to tear our family apart and inflict this on our younger child purely due to his own ego that's up to him.
Currently sat at work trying not to cry.

It's hard OP, but you did the right thing.

He needed to establish a more adult less 'bantering' relationship with his DSS but he can't do that by sitting there sulking. As the adult, he needs to take the lead.

What is the housing situation?

I'm sorry OP.

To me it's fairly typical teenage behaviour.

no it isn't. Rudeness and attitude is not typical, normal or acceptable, and most teens don't do it.

I think this is the crux of your problem, you are allowing your sone to behave badly and expecting your husband to put up with it. Why should he?

I agree you should separate, it you are not prepared to make your son behave reasonably. Because their relationship isn't going to get better unless your child's behaviour gets better

@exomoon we have a very big mortgage. He works full time and earns about 3-4 times more than me. Absolutely no way I could stay there.
I am hoping if he sees how serious I am he will take a long hard look at himself. Also think ds needs to be aware that there needs to be some behaviour modification on his side too if he wants to stay living in his nice house close to friends and school.

I have to say I agree with this, children or teenagers behaviour should be excused away and adults should not just have to put up with it because 'just teenagers are like that'

It is always the same type of mam ‘demanding respect’ and it is always the step child bearing the brunt of their bullying ways.

Yes, my experience too. Perhaps because there is less biological 'love' involved in step parents?