To be terrified about PIP?

[BobbyBiscuits]

I've tried to blank all this out for ages, but today it hit me when the government basically are saying I'm going to (they want me to) have my PIP cut off?
My main illnesses are severe depressive disorder, general anxiety disorder and severe anorexia. I've severe PTSD symptoms and also think I may have ADHD but have not been able to get diagnosed due to phobia of MH services since I got sectioned.
I now have physical symptoms also and severe osteperosis which I put on my last forms. But had no assessment for several years.
I'm praying this is BS from the Tories and they can't do it anyway as they'll be kicked out.
Or could labour still continue this assault against disabled people?
It would halve my already tiny income, other half is from ESA, and they could kick me off that too even though I can't do anything!?

What do people think?

Obviously there is a mental health crisis but i agree with a pp... there is a contingent within the group that aren't working, for whom a careful transition back to work will probably massively improve their mental health.

I would also say a lot of employers are really focussed on this now & offer support through the workplace. In addition a lot of employers offer private health that might enable people to access therapy.

I understand there are some people who are never going to be able to work for health reasons. Of course there are.

But it just cannot be as high as it is today. As an economy & a society, it doesn't work for 25 or 30% of the working age population to be carried by everyone else, when the working age population are already supporting a large contingent of children & the elderly.

This is who they are targeting first. I believe these individuals will be limited to 12 months and then PIP will be stopped.

I would also say a lot of employers are really focussed on this now & offer support through the workplace. In addition a lot of employers offer private health that might enable people to access therapy.

what a stupid comment. any private health cover needs screening and pre+existing conditions are really covered. if you take up a job after diagnosis, nobody will treat you.

Strange thing to be bragging about, tbh. There is a price to pay, for being able to have the car in the first place.

Hopefully it's just this bit I don't trust the Tories.

what a stupid comment. any private health cover needs screening and pre+existing conditions are really covered.

Nope - I've had private health under 3 employers and never been screened for any, and had lots of physio appointments for a pre-existing issue.

what a stupid comment. any private health cover needs screening and pre+existing conditions are really covered. if you take up a job after diagnosis, nobody will treat you

It's stupid to make such sweeping statements about things you clearly have no experience of @Cygnetmad .

My job offers excellent private health cover and this is provided to every employee equally - there are no qualifying health questions and pre-existing conditions are absolutely fully covered. My employer is not alone in this.

A few PP have suggested PIP should be means tested.

I don't think so, for a few reasons. Firstly, the point of PIP is so that a disabled person is not out of pocket due to their disabilities. Being disabled is expensive, and PIP enables some people to be able to work to begin with.

Secondly, PIP is paid to the individual with the disability. If you make it means tested, then a disabled person who happens to be living with/married to someone who either earns too much, or has too much in savings, will not be entitled to any money. On MN, women are warned to never be financially dependant on a man... yet by making PIP means tested, they would forced to be. I have a friend who claims PIP, but can't claim ESA as her husband has too much in savings. The PIP is her money, not his. She does use it for therapy too.

This would also create a barrier to meeting people and having relationships. Being disabled in itself can create enough barriers, without there being a financial one too. Even with UC, there are couples where one has a disability, and they can't live together as their money would stop (I am in that situation).

I hope that kind of makes sense. My head is a bit all over the place today.

Sorry but how you drew that conclusion from my post about the right to use a leveling up payment as one saw fit, doesn't make sense.

I'm multiply physically disabled so I may not be the best person to comment, but I can't imagine any disability in which one didn't have direct or indirect expenses as a result. The world isn't set up for the disabled which is why it costs more to make it work.

The reality for me is barely touches the sides of additional expenses incurred, though I appreciate it, and I live a pretty frugal life by most peoples standards.

Who is going to assess them? My dd has anorexia,autism, adhd , depression, suicidal idealisation, SH and ptsd. She is under the Ed team, the adult ND team and the home treatment team when in crisis. The community mental health team keep punting her back when the Ed team try to refer her to get her specialised therapy to help with coping skills and managing emotions so on it goes. Crisis after crisis. They are all separate and there is no cohesion. Are you seriously telling me a job centre worker is going to be qualified to diagnose my daughter, advise on her treatment and decide what her needs are?. Are they going to take responsibility for my DD’s safety?

I thought they already did this (in some cases). I know a chap who is on the highest rate for both components, and it is a life long award as he will never get better (in fact, he will get worse as time goes on).

That is extremely rare to have cover which isn't underwritten and not the norm. hth

If they have the therapy in the first place, then perhaps people wouldn’t need to claim for PIP!

if CAMHS had helped my daughter when needed, then perhaps she would have been saved from anorexia, SH and suicidal ideation, inpatient admission. I would have been able to work and DD wouldn’t be on PIP. It was so much easier to give her therapy in the first place.

YANBU to be terrified OP. This government have brought out so many proposals about hitting the sick and disabled in the pocket.

Last year, it was about scrapping the WCA, and using PIP as a way to determine if someone is fit for work or not... which makes no sense as PIP is not an out of work benefit. So the only people who would be on the higher rate of UC, would be those on PIP. Everyone else will be miraculously cured of what ails them, and just stroll into a job.

Now they are coming for those on PIP.

To be honest, it is not the proposals that scare me so much now, but the division it is causing between people, and how awful and isolated it is making people feel. Lots of shitty comments on MN from people who have no idea what it is like to be disabled, or what hoops you have to jump through to prove as much to get the meagre amount of money you get to make life a little more bearable.

I'm sorry but this is so naive.

Reimbursed? Many disabled people live in abject poverty. They can't afford to put the heating on let alone pay upfront for expensive therapies.

And there are countless therapies for countless conditions. How do you get all private services to subscribe to a voucher system across the board?. It's absolutely unworkable.

Can understand it’s scary but, in the nicest possible way j think the fact you have been sectioned in the past demonstrates a certain history and severity so try not to worry about it.

Try not to worry. The announcement that they were changing from DLA to PIP caused similar panic headlines at the time which didn't become a reality.

I think it does need reviewing in some way as it doesn't really serve the purpose it was originally intended for & has become a top up for people out of work or in part time work.

I think there's a huge problem with employment among disabled people as most people have widely fluctuating disabilities & most employers cannot cope with the levels of absence & the flexibility that would enable them to work. There needs to be bigger changes to support people with chronic illness & disability in work which isn't as simple as 'pay for adaptations'

Most disabilities fluctuate & issues like fatigue, pain, mental health are virtually impossible to adapt for in the workplace. Someone might be able to do full time some weeks, 16 hours some weeks & zero on other weeks often without warning. Working part time 20 hours might lessen the impact on both employer & employee but what's needed is more understanding & flexibility perhaps financially supporting employers of disabled employees so they have a full time wage they can rely on but the employer is supported to allow higher absence/flexibility.

I speak from my own experience of being employed as a disabled person on DLA & now PIP & also as a line manager.

Exactly this!

Kids are then leaving CAMHS rated as red and getting nothing. The provision is dire for 18-25 years old. Many spend the whole time waiting under CAMHs and then get dumped at 18 when they hit adult services. They are ill vulnerable youngsters and there is no cohesion or provision for this age group. They are expected to manage their case and advocate for themselves overnight. It’s an absolute disgrace and this government should be hanging their heads in shame.

PIP is awarded to the wife due to her disability and needs. Her husband and needs/finances is not taken into account. PIP is not means tested. He could have 10 cars, but the wife is entitled to one based on her PIP award.

They have not done anything wrong.

Having spent 30 years writing letters in support/ issuing sick notes/ filling in forms around patient’s benefits/PIP I would say don’t worry
I also had a short unhappy period working for ATOS when they first got the contract for medical assessments and have also had some time off myself with depression
Most doctors / HCPs I know do everything they can to make sure people get what they are entitled to - and the more we see right wing rhetoric about sickness and mental health we dig out heels in even more
I have a colleague who works in a deprived area in paediatrics who every time he sees a child with asthma in poor housing writes with consent to the housing department. Absolutely every time he sees them - makes a real nuisance of himself!
They will be out soon - the sooner the better

Can you tell me please where did you get the number 25-30% of the population not working due to mental health issues?
I checked the data from gov.uk and parliament website it was only around 7,04% of people not working because of both mental health issues + physical health issues. It means only because of mental health issues should be less than 7.04%. Where did you get the number of 25-30%?

For those thinking it is only people with depression and anxiety who will be targeted I have just read an interview with Mel Stride in the Times where he also mentions those who have ADHD and learning disabilities.

I would love to know what cure he will be providing for those conditions.

Being given vouchers for therapy instead of money is nuts.
Who will determine what length of time this therapy will last? I had 5 years of therapy under the NHS, alongside 2 rounds of DBT (which are 1 year long).

All you get in primary services are a max of a few weeks with a counsellor at your GP. But if you are complex, they wont touch you anyway.

And no one is on PIP for the sort of mild depression and anxiety that is dealt with at primary care level.

That is extremely rare to have cover which isn't underwritten and not the norm. hth

It's really, really not. In fact, it's the exact opposite.

Most employee benefits packages that include private health cover specifically state that medical history is disregarded, meaning pre-existing conditions are covered.

I think maybe you're thinking of an individual taking out private health cover, which is totally different.

Either that or you're just making stuff up because you have no clue but want to appear that you do. Either way, you're wrong.

Hth.

Sadly, I think there is an active desire by some, that we should have to keep accounts, have to hand in receipts, and justify every expense we incur and the cost of our existence, as well as not have the choices non disabled people have, to scrimp on one thing to pay for another.

The desire to punch down, divide and impose ablest hierarchy is strong in some.