Should I give a bad reference

[NotABeliever]

I have received a request for references for someone I was directly supervising until last month. He's resigned after 11 months but we were in the process of starting a disciplinary for dishonesty, poor time keeping and performance issues. It looks like he's been offered a job in a charity and I don't know what to do.

We only provide factual references- so and so worked here from x date to x date in this role - unless someone has been dismissed which he wasn't.

I'm loathe to letting a charity hire such a bad person. But I can get in trouble as I'm not supposed to give references, HR is.

What would you do? I have the mobile number and email address of the person seeking the references.

Why write that? The OP says that HR only give factual references not recommendations.

It's not your decision, pass on to HR and let them handle it

You've answered your own question. It's HRs job. HR should already be aware of the disciplinary and may or may not factor it on.
Steer well clear.

I think this is excellent advice.

why would HR not know you were starting a disciplinary?

So then do that.

As everyone else says, pass it to HR and do not interfere. Many places only give 'factual' details in references for very good reasons, especially where someone has left of their own accord.

It is possible that if a bad reference was given, the employee could actually sue if they disagreed what was said and if no disciplinary had actually happened, there would need to be a LOT of solid evidence that what the (bad) reference said was correct. Most companies want to avoid that possibility

You could land in a lot of hot water, maybe lose your job @NotABeliever if you do anything than pass it to HR without comment.

Ps - I knew someone who was dismissed for false accounting. A few years later she was spotted working in a bank!

Factually he hasn't been dismissed so you answer Factually the questions

That’s all you can legally do ! You cannot and should not provide any references outside of the set parameter or you risk being in huge trouble and fired yourself

If HR provide the references at your place then simply pass it to them so that they can negotiate the legalities.

It doesn't speak for itself. Many workplaces have this as their policy and don't say any more than this - you can't make an assumption from it either way.

My old workplace would have done this exactly the same for everyone, just gave dates, whether you were amazing or terrible. That was their policy.

The best thing to do is simply decline to give a reference.

It is factual that he is about to be on a disciplinary and has several performance issues - that's not subjective. HR need that information to make an informed decision about whether to give a reference.

I don't blame you for wanted to phone them up and tell them how shit this man is but unfortunately you cant
Let HR deal with it and if they ask you then just say that you feel unable to provide one

What a bizarre comment. Have you recently been dismissed for dishonesty?

OP I would do as the others say and escalate it to HR. If you reply to your contact very factually explaining you can't do this but HR will be in touch I suspect it will speak volumes. Most people would say something like "oh glad to hear he's got a job" or "she will be a great asset" if they genuinely mean it. Silence says it all!

Do not do this. You cannot give a 'bad' reference btw, only a factual one.

You don't say a disciplinary process was underway, just that you were starting one. If the employee resigned during disciplinary action you can actually state that if it can be documented - but only if it is allowed within your references policy & if there is a justification for it (eg safeguarding concern). Why would you do it otherwise and jeopardise the person's future?

You need to pass this on to HR and ask them to manage it according to their usual protocols. Don't handle it yourself and give this person the opportunity to claim victimisation against you - just be glad he's gone & move on.

So many companies do that as a policy that it really doesn't speak for itself and it is a shame if people think it has some hidden meaning.

When I was an employer I would have welcomed an honest reference having been caught out more than once by employing someone who interviewed well but whose work was definitely substandard ☹️

In my industry 99% of the time the only official reference people will get is a confirmation of dates. Some places will phone around asking via contacts to try and get an informal feel for the person. If the charity is shit at background research that's on them sadly.

I love the fact that OP thinks that only good people work for charities!

By far the most naive thing I’ve read recently 😊

Well you could have picked up the phone.....

Thsi
dont Get involved

I'm going to sort of buck the trend here OP. I feel the same as most pp's that you should just pass it to HR as per policy BUT i think you shouldn't try and cause trouble. What if ex employee was going through some really rough times while working with you and that is why he was such a poor employee? This new job in a different sector might help him get his life back on track.

Give the basic factual reference. X worked at jvfjv between x and x

Well then do that. I don't understand thr problem? Follow protocol

I don’t think that everyone who works for charities is “good”. I just think it’s a costly mistake to make to hire someone who cheats their timesheets and works 3 hours a days instead of 7. Someone who in 11 months has had 3 complaints in from customers and zero positive feedback. Someone who runs out of annual leave and demands unpaid leave then goes off sick when the request gets turned down. If I could spare the charity the pain of getting rid of him, I would. But I agree it’s not worth risking my job over it.