To think good school places will be even harder to find next year because of the VAT on school fees

[Nesca1]

We are are looking at secondary schools for DS. We have our eye on a decent school bang in the middle of a solid middle class area . The school is always over subscribed; this year we would have gotten a place but last year we would have missed out because of how far we are from the school.
Usually, the school offers places to children living 1600m away, last year it was 1400m due to a large number of sibling applications.

Due to the whole VAT issue, i think more parents from the local area are going to be sending their kids to this school, rather than sending them to private schools.

Is this a reasonable assumption? I don't think parents will wait for the policy to be enacted, but they will move their year 6 children into this school.

It is estimated that instead of a straight 20% increase the increase to fees after VAT will be more like 15%. The school will try to reduce its costs, and it will be able to recover some previously irrecoverable VAT.

What I find interesting and is possibly not captured in the figures is the extra work parents take on to pay for school fees. I work full time mainly because we have kids in private school and we need to fund the fees (local state school is utterly appalling and we have no grandparents to foot the bill alas). I would certainly drop my hours when the kids are through school and the state will lose my income tax as a result. There must be others in the same position as me.

Having said that I am fairly neutral on the introduction of VAT on fees. Most parents can afford the rise and private schooling does give parents the luxury of choice. It’s not education which is the luxury item, but choice.

What a load of bollocks - I send DC to private and a shitload of parents are going to leave if it comes in. So many people scrape and sacrifice and 20% per child is a lot.

People are incredibly naive if they think this isn’t going to make a difference to their lives, but this is exactly what politics of envy does. This is being backed out of, essentially, spite, and it will be too late to put the horse back into the stable when it’s fucked up for everyone.

I don’t predict many kids will be pulled from school, but I do think there will be a lot of parents reconsidering whether to start their kids in private school be it at primary or secondary level.

@Giraffesandbottoms There are stats out there showing that virtually all private school pupils come from high earning families.
If you are not prepared to make the sacrifices for additional school fees, then that is your choice.

It’s very simply a policy of envy.
It would be far better to focus on improving education for all. This policy won’t put anything into the pot to achieve that and Labour hasn’t said how they intend to improve state education….but I wait with baited breath.

Wonder what Labour plan to do about private health care, that has a far more devastating affect on those that are ill and constantly shoved to the back of the queue because they can’t afford to pay. Why, for example, is it acceptable for the Royal family to jump the queue and get treated in super quick time, because they pay for it whilst those diagnosed before them wait in the queue and die. Again, just waiting for Labour to speak up on that one.

@Giraffesandbottoms Honestly your post is the equivalent of - they are just jeaalloouss.
If you really believe that then I suggest you utilise some greater critical analysis.

The vast majority of people, including me, do not give the slightest toss if you send your children to private or state school. What we do not accept is that your choice should attract a tax cut to school fees. That is it. It is about fairness in tax, and humans do instinctively seem to value fairness.

I don’t know what point you are making. High earning families have to scrape the fees together too. 2 kids at private school can easily take an entire £80k salary. Then the other parent has to earn to provide the rest.

At my kids school it is mostly the grandparents that pay. Inherited wealth. Not us alas.

@Monstersunderthesea And? Am I supposed to feel sorry for a family where grandparents pay school fees? Or feel sorry for parents where one parents salary pays school fees and the other parents salary pays living costs?

Unfortunately I haven’t seen any policies from Labour showing how they’ll improve the state sector (apart from spending the 1% of the education budget they’ll apparently get from the VAT policy). What a sorry state of affairs it is when the 2 main parties don’t seem to have any workable plans to improve the state education 94% of the population rely on.

Telling people that they are "incredibly naive" to not think it will have a huge negative impact on anyone whose child doesn't go to private school is pathetic. It won't have a huge negative impact especially if introduced gradually and given the falling state school numbers predicted in the future. It is not out spiteful to not care about well off people having to pay VAT so that the money can be used elsewhere.

@Another76543 what do you care? You already said you put your children first, they will be in private school.

Yes, I’ve heard of increasing numbers of grandparents paying school fees, and more will do so if VAT is introduced. That has the benefit of saving IHT as well (something else the IFS calculations should take account of).

Apart from the major destruction that labour did in the 60s, turning the successful and respected grammar/secondary modern system into comprehensives for “fairness”. That’s where the rot set in. BTW it was perfectly possible to move from the secondary modern to the grammar. my dad did.

this was the biggest destruction of state education by a political party in living memory.

Oh come on those kind of people already plan so they do not pay IHT.
I am fine if grandparents want to pay school fees. I simply do not want them to be given a tax discount.

Dh and I are a clear example of this.
We have both now reduced our hours and only work on a consultancy basis now.
Had we not chosen private we definitely would have done that a lot sooner.

We are not alone by any means in this.

So yes I agree, this will affect the amount of taxes on earnings parents such as us pay.
Labour haven’t factored any of that in

What do I care? Funnily enough I care about the children of family and friends having to use the state system. I care because the children at school today are the generation who’ll be in the workplace in a few years. All children deserve a good education. It’s a disgrace that, despite paying huge amounts of tax, some families can’t access a good state education unless they move to a different part of the country. A good education should not be a postcode lottery.

By the way if the lens you see life through is that any policies or complaints you do not like is because some9one is envious or jealous, there is a lot you are not going to understand.
I do understand the emotional comfort of reach for an explanation that someone is just envious or jealous. But it is nearly always an emotionally illiterate argument that fails to understand the actual issues.

Of course your main concern is children in state schools.😂

I reckon labour’s vat on private will do about as much for state education as boris’s 350 million brexit bus did for the NHS

it went wonderfully didn’t it??

You think abolishing a tax advantage on private schools is going to destroy the economy?
Maybe read up a bit more about economics first?

I didn’t say other children were my “main” concern. My own children are my main concern, obviously. I am concerned, however, that state education is failing too many children. That is harmful to society as a whole and doesn’t benefit any of us. Taxing school fees isn’t going to help with that. We need meaningful improvement by some other means (increasing the basic rate of VAT by just 1% would raise billions more than this proposed policy)

Yes l agree op, DD's school have warned parents to expect a 10% rise from September, luckily she will finish 6th form this year, or we would have pulled her out. Many of her cohorts parents have said similar.
Ds has 2 more years and as his school has stated fees will increase by 8% next year, so we have applied to the local grammar but it is very oversubscribed even more so this year.
Those saying parents will just suck it up have no clue, there are always a proportion just scraping the fees, and not able or willing to pay more. Even if that proportion is 10 or 20% can state schools accommodate those children all at once?
No of course not.
Additionally many of the small independents will close and those children will require a state school place.
This policy is idiotic and it is amazing to me that politicians cannot see the inevitable outcome, and have put nothing in place to deal with it.

Have they modelled the likely number of extra children needing places?
No

Have they worked out which schools are likely to be able to cope and which are not.
No

Have they put a plan in place to accommodate more children ready to be executed before September.
No

If my children were starting school from now l would be extremely worried.

I imagine you know that’s not what I meant at all.

@squirrelnutkin10 School roles in state schools are falling. They can easily absorb the small increase in pupils from private schools.
Will you get your first choice of state school? Maybe not, you have to apply like everyone else and it will depend on the school's criteria. But your child will get a state school place if you want one.

I agree that some small independent schools may close. I see that as a good thing. There are still too many small independents providing an inadequate education and pastoral care. These are the ones likely to close.

We know there are a small number of parents scraping paying private school fees, but very few. There is decent research which shows that virtually all parents of private school pupils are well off. Some of those parents may not be prepared to make the sacrifices for increased school fees - that is their choice.

In our area state schools are oversubscribed and a lot of people go private. Yes, I do expect that some parents, especially those with multiple children will reconsider their choices and that pressure on state system in the area will be significant. We have one child in a private school and we will be able to absorb the VAT but a lot
of other families are reconsidering their plans now. I do believe it may result in less PAYE taxes as some will decide to homeschool, increase in house prices (which are already insane here) and local state schools scrambling to accommodate. Failing to see how that will benefit anyone.