To think good school places will be even harder to find next year because of the VAT on school fees

[Nesca1]

We are are looking at secondary schools for DS. We have our eye on a decent school bang in the middle of a solid middle class area . The school is always over subscribed; this year we would have gotten a place but last year we would have missed out because of how far we are from the school.
Usually, the school offers places to children living 1600m away, last year it was 1400m due to a large number of sibling applications.

Due to the whole VAT issue, i think more parents from the local area are going to be sending their kids to this school, rather than sending them to private schools.

Is this a reasonable assumption? I don't think parents will wait for the policy to be enacted, but they will move their year 6 children into this school.

“Our outstanding grammar criteria is just 6 GCSE’s of 6 and above.”

Well ours is 8 GCSE and then the places go to the highest scorers with overall top points barring any other mitigating criteria. So at the moment it has been all 8x9 primarily. And even then they take dependent on subject choice and vacancy. So if you want to do History or Music or a language you are far more likely to get a place than if you want to do Maths and Computer Science which are massively oversubscribed (and they can’t get more staff).

I think a few schools that are already teetering on the edge will go bust. Some may merge. I think the vast majority will survive.

I know a lot of people in RL with kids in private schools. They will mostly just find the extra cash rather than disrupt their kids' education. Most have seen this coming and planned for it.

I think there are a lot of people shouting online about how schools will collapse and how there will be a massive influx into the state sector, but they clearly have a vested interest in hyping up the potential impact and making alarmist statements about potential unintended consequences. I suspect that the reality is far more likely to be a trickle into the state sector that is easily absorbed.

It isn't really in the interests of private school parents right now to say that they will just stump up the extra cash, but I reckon that's exactly what the vast majority will do.

OP I think you're right. Even the threat of it has made me decide to send my daughter to state 6th form - she's yr 9 so will stay for her GCSE's at the private school but then we're out.

And we're not the only ones I know of considering this so if it's an issue for those of us with 2 yrs left those staring down the barrel of 7 yrs fees plus inflationary rises and a VAT element will definitely start exploring other options.

Most countries don’t tax education and I don’t think we should.

Really? I think this is what lots ‘threaten’ but IME few parents actually jump with Yr 7+
kids. If 3 sets of fees were viable, I expect you can already afford it, you’re just feeling peeved.

I don't know what a "grammar" school means these days as I don't live in one of those areas. However, the suggestion that private schools become grammar schools makes me pmsl. Labour abolished grammar schools in the 60s. Their fucking with education didn't go well. But they're going to do it again.

Feeling peeved actually might cause some people to change their behaviour.

I don't think rich people get rich by saying, oh sod it I can afford it.

Exactly this.

My DCs go to a grammar—entrance is based only on 11+ exam scores, not parental income/ability to pay tuition.

All this ‘denying other children a place’ nonsense.

Please. You aren’t thinking of anyone else in your decision to educate your own dc privately. It’s all about buying advantage for your own dc. I get it. We all want the best for our dc. But no one is thinking ‘oh, as we can afford it we must send our children to private school so the poor child down the road isn’t deprived of a place at x state school.’

So a few more children may access parts of the state system. Great! They will develop a far more real understanding of the world, society and their community (in as much as the social factors of their location allow). Some of our future leaders may have more perspective and balance. Hooray!

(& fwiw no one I know who privately educates their dc are talking about taking them out. They’re all moaning about paying more. No one likes to pay more. But they and their dc are all going to be fine. Don’t worry.)

If they are a charity, then they must (under the laws at present governing the closure of a charity whether voluntarily or because it has or is about to go bust) see off its assets at full market value. So yes, I expect they will end up as prime sites for luxury housing and exclusive sports clubs.

After clearing debts, any remaining proceeds must be donated to another, similarly-aimed, charity

Likely to be similar when winding up a business, though there's more scope to sell cheaply to a preferred developer. And any remaining proceeds would be distributed to the business owners.

Most countries don't tax education and I don't think we should

Completely agree. This policy is only possible because of Brexit and, given its prominence in Labour pledges, has to be a signal that we are staying out.

And they don’t play fast and loose with their kids education either. Flouncing won’t happen.

Honestly schools will absorb some parents the rest. If you look at school fee inflation over the last 20 years, this is almost in line. People don’t want to pay tax but they won’t fuck over their kids. Quite clever policy really.

I’ll take it the answer is nil. Thanks for confirming.

Of course few make a decision to use private due to that, but they may well use spending ability to get the best state instead which does displace dc

The number of pps on these threads who think they're doing the state system a favour by sending their kids private, is risible

Birth rates have been dropping since 2010 I think. Therefore competition for places in general for school places will be less than two years ago and that will continue. There will be an smaller number in year nine and above it might impact, but I imagine once children are in exam years parent are more likely to find a way for two years until the next break point anyway.

Added to that the increasing number of families moving out of London for example, and it might not be as much of a crunch point as it could have been a few years ago.

You’re not following what is being said. People choosing private does lower the state burden, whether that is irritating or not. It’s likely not why they do it, but that’s the effect.

Pushing more people to state will cause bigger spikes in competition for the best state schools

@Chatonette "My DCs go to a grammar—entrance is based only on 11+ exam scores, not parental income/ability to pay tuition."

However, 11+ scores are based very much on parental income/social class.

I work 4 days a week partly to retain childcare vouchers. If we can no longer afford private school, I'll likely just quit. I work to pay for my life not because I love paying taxes. Just looking at our family, the exchequer will be loosing a tonne of money from my PAYE and then funding our kids education on top. It's up the a future labour government and the voter what they care about more. Where we live, there is tonnes of private schools. I really have no idea whether or not the state schools have capacity to absorb. I really hope Starmer has checked they can.

But the benefits far outweigh a tiny number of children being absorbed into the state system across the country.

Its such a non issue but keep trying to hype it up!

It might be a non issue in your area, but there are lots of areas where it will be a serious issue.

So you’re paying a tonne of taxes but can’t afford private fees and will give up this highly paid job and pension completely
if you have to pay VAT.

Okaaaay.

Such as?

I'm not sure that Starmer will ditch the policy now though regardless of how it will land. I'm yet to see an interview with Reeves where she isn't funding another thing with this new revenue.

This policy is only possible because of Brexit and, given its prominence in Labour pledges, has to be a signal that we are staying out.

How so, @Scaevola? Something to do with tax law? This is a really interesting thread!