To ask what is really so bad about a teaching career compared to other jobs? Does anyone actually enjoy it?

[yardstickss]

I earn reasonably highly in a career in finance. I manage the pressure ok and it’s quite competitive, which I don’t enjoy, but just try to focus and get the work done and go home/log off. I often work until mid evening and will usually but not always work Sunday evening for 4 ish hours to make the start of the week less stressful.

I have always considered working in teaching and very nearly did a week PGCE. I feel finance is such an empty job in comparison to teaching. I feel I would make more of a difference in teaching. I know it would be a pay cut but I’d also have longer holidays. I hear so much about the downsides to teaching though. Does anyone enjoy it? I know lesson planning takes up a lot of time but I think perhaps similar to how I work late now anyway? Just interested in whether I’m actually missing something (likely!) as I don’t know anyone personally in teaching other than one who really likes it but he works in the private sector.

We aren’t paid for the holidays. It’s pro rata. Saying that we are really well paid and then saying that your pay is in the 95th centile for doing something way less stressful, with much more flexibility etc doesn’t really help prove your point.

@Drearydiedre - not in my school. Sometimes we agree to do observations as a Dept once a year - for interest as much as anything else. Sometimes there are students in lessons on their PGCE. I’ve been at my current school 19 years and, including three inspections and appraisals, have been seen 10 times, if that.

Wholeheartedly agree!

Plus as a fully qualified teacher with leadership responsibility I’m about 8 grand short of that total. I’m on the highest band I can be paid with a bit extra for my responsibility, and I don’t even earn close to nearly 49k! My partner who does management work with no degree and has worked his way up from the shop floor earns 50k+…doesn’t do half as much work at evenings and weekends! And yes…it’s or rata!

Also, you'll have to direct me to the other jobs with the 13 weeks off.

Yep, that must be why people are flocking to sign up to be teachers. Oh hang on...

I'm a PT of 2 subjects. I make £67000. I never work past 5, or before 8, or weekends or holidays. Honestly, have a hard line. You'll notice you'd don't need to.

People don't want to be teachers because it gets slated continuously by the press, by the government, by parents, by teachers. I flipping love my job. I love my department. We have excellent fun.

I really enjoy my job!
41 years and counting!
I like my subject, History, and I like young people. I have some great classes, some are quite hard work but I enjoy it. I've always taught in big city non selective state schools. By and large ok, I've learned to tune out the crap from some SLT and some parents.
Mostly it's enjoyable, although tiring. I think working with teenagers is brilliant and it keeps me young!

PT?

PT signifies Scotland. They negotiated a better pay rise!

That's assistant - deputy head of a reasonably large secondary school in England...

I work 0.8 as a secondary teacher

I like working with students but I hate the politics and bureaucracy

It's easy to get burnout, it can be a tiring never ending job

Bullying and harassment are ways of managing people out are all to common, usually though lesson observations

The appraisal/observation process is entirely subjective and someone can say I'm inadequate and another outstanding and that's it! No comeback.

Holidays are fine but I'm almost always burnt out and fill it with appointments as you can't do them easily during the term. You can't take an hour for a physio or work your lunch to go to the dentist. You can't going out for dinner and drinks and have an easy day the next day.

But I work with some lovely people! 90% of the student are amazing and polite and work really hard. My colleagues are the bomb. We have such a laugh all the time.

If you are sick, you have to set work. So it's easier to go in.

You are set target for each student to get and if you don't meet them you have to explain why. Sometimes this will trigger observations as above.

My school is ok for the not doing observations. Some schools use them to persecute people.

I love it but I will swear at the next person that cites "13 weeks holiday" as a massive perk. The pro-rata salary really chips into take home pay and what do people really expect us to do with 13 weeks holiday? The term is so intense, that by the time I've recovered, done the jobs that need to be done at home (because there is no time to do stuff during term time), it's time to go back to school again.

I love my job and thrive in busy environments and intense situations, so it's perfect for me. It's not for everyone though.

I love my time in the classroom and I enjoy preparing lessons. Working with children is a fab privilege because you get to see what makes them spark and help to nurture it. Plus no two days are ever the same. It's not a job where you click watch. The holidays are also fab and one of the reasons why I've remained in the education sector.

I think all jobs have their plus and negative points but teachers are notorious for complaining about their job and I'm no exception.

IMO in recent years I've felt the squeeze in terms of lack of funding for all of the other areas that work with children; social work, sure start, alternative provision, cahms, hint, salt, Ed psych etc. Schools just have to continue to absorb the impact and I think this is the year it seems to have hit a tipping point where I feel too many children are being failed and without more funding I don't see it ending.

I think inclusion is great as a goal to aim for, but what a lot of people don't understand is inclusion isn't just putting all children regardless of their needs into a mainstream school together so they can all be friends and learn alongside each other. It's only successful and beneficial to all children if the appropriate support is in place. Otherwise you're just setting children up to fail.

I also get sick of successive education secretaries trying to reinvent the wheel and having different priorities seemingly on a whim. So many times now I've heard this amazing new thing that is going to transform how children learn and we have to follow it blindly when anyone who spends any amount of time with kids knows that children learn in lots of different ways. There isn't a single one size fits all way of teaching anything.

Ofsted are not fit for purpose. Everybody is in favour of a system of accountability but this is not it. Inspectors are very poorly trained and almost always forget that you're not supposed to show preferences for certain methods or programmes.

The primary curriculum is crap. It was rejigged a decade ago and it could've really reflected what children these days need to learn to be successful. Instead they just moved some elements of the secondary curriculum down to primary and changed the name of the levels. There's some really interesting and intelligent people pushing for meaningful change with lots of evidence to back up their ideas but their ideas seem to be really misrepresented in the press who are incredibly resistant to curriculum change and I don't know why.

Setting and marking homework is a waste of time. It has no benefit at all and gets in the way of things which are actually proven to be useful (except reading- reading is beneficial).

Every teacher I know hates rewarding 100% attendance because it's unfair and thinks fines for holidays in term time are awful because many children would never go on holiday if that had to stick to school holidays - it's a fine that just perpetuates an existing inequality.

TLDR - working with children is amazing but there's a lot of bullshit and politics around the job which can make aspects of it unenjoyable.

People don't want to be teachers because it gets slated continuously by the press, by the government, by parents, by teachers. I flipping love my job. I love my department. We have excellent fun.

No, people don't want to be teachers because they know the workload is unreasonable, behaviour in a lot of schools is horrific, Ofsted and general scrutiny are stressful and counter-productive, the curriculum is inaccessible to quite a lot of kids, teachers feel unsupported by SLT, schools are underfunded, AND teachers are slated by all and sundry.

I also firmly believe that if you are minister for anything in this country you should spend some time in that setting to get a handle on the issues before you start setting your agenda. So the minister for education should spend time in maybe a private school, an inner city school, a rural school and specialist provision - from early years to 6th form before they start with their changes. I'm fairly sure gove wouldn't have wasted his time sending all those bibles out if he'd set foot in a school and spoken to even one person there!

Yes, I would like every education minister to come into schools, talk to teachers and actually work out what needs to be done.

Principal Teacher. I'm in charge of 2 departments. Helps that my departments are excellent teachers who genuinely love working with kids and enjoy their job. Is it perfect? No, things go wrong, times are busy, we moan, budgets get smaller, pointless meetings still exist. But that's every job. You are gonna spend 40 years of your life doing it. You better love working with your colleagues and enjoy the job. Nothing worse than the 55 years old teachers in the staff room whinging that the job isn't the same anymore and counting down the decade until they can retire.

Yes, that's what I said , so this is Scotland, right?

We are called subject leaders here, too. I am in charge of two departments as well and earn a great deal less than you after 35 years experience.

Your role might be seen as similar to a head of faculty here, (not all schools have those ) and might pay somewhere around 50 - 60k in a large school. A subject leader of one subject might be on somewhere in the 40ks. As I said, your pay is equivalent to a deputy or assistant head's pay in England.

I think we are ignoring or sidestepping an issue if we feel pay doesn't matter. If we feel our jobs are full on, demanding and tough , as well as rewarding and challenging, we ought to accept that pay bargaining would demand higher pay , if effective. Same argument junior doctors and otehr sectors are having.

Nothing worse than the 55 years old teachers in the staff room whinging that the job isn't the same anymore and counting down the decade until they can retire.

Nice little bit of ageism there.

As a side note, no one goes in staff rooms any more... no time. Unless you're going to tell me you get an hour for lunch, too.

I was going to say - who on earth sits in a "staffroom" anymore!
Plus, the colleagues who complain the most seem to cut across the age groups where I work.

I worked in a high pressure business career and like you found it unfulfilling and retrained aged 53 to be a secondary teacher. I was earning around 120k a year in previous job
I work in an independent school in a leafy suburb and earn around 50k now, 5 years in.
Love being in the classroom even tho behaviour is much more challenging post covid. My life is much more fun filled -lots of laughter and the kids do provide endless entertainment. Colleagues are mostly great, management is dire. Have seen all kinds of managers in my previous career, but in business bad managers lose the company money and mostly get fired -in teaching they just seem to get promoted. Endless marking demands and ‘data drops’ are tedious but as an experienced person you will find it easier to manage the workload and prioritise and avoid the worst of the dross.
Luckily at my age I can sit back with popcorn at their ridiculous demands, but the younger teachers are under the cosh.
I recommend in your situation giving it a go. You don’t need the money so can be a good way to enjoy the final few years before retirement. You will be in big demand as a fresh enthusiastic person but with life experience.
I would not recommend it as a job for younger people planning a family.

Yep. I take my 50 minutes. I run clubs at lunch and have loads of pupils. It's great.
You couldn't pay me enough to work in England. Move to Scotland. Its got challenges but it's definitely better.
Also, clearly staffroom is a figure of speech. Also, yeah, loads of moaners but the ones who've taught for 35 years already and have another 10 to go are the worst. "Why isn't it exactly like it was the day I started?"

Interesting how valid complaints and concerns and a lack of respect for experienced teachers thoughts are always reframed as 'moaning'. That isn't new in teaching though.

I am Scottish! It's not as easy as you say to just 'move to Scotland'. There's not the same level of recruitment crisis so not as many jobs (for obvious reasons...) and also the GTC registration is amazingly onerous.

Well. Experiences differ.
Although where I work it does cut across ages, but I'm finding it's the young ones complaining the most vociferously at union meetings, but sometimes it's tough in the first few years.
It's important that we support each other.
It very much depends on your personality and what you're looking for in a career. If it's a good fit for you, it's great. I have no regrets.

35 minutes lunch here is standard. Relationships with students - and staff wellbeing-definitely suffer.

We cut lunchtimes right down because of bullying and behaviour problems at lunchtime. It does reduce them.