To ask what is really so bad about a teaching career compared to other jobs? Does anyone actually enjoy it?

[yardstickss]

I earn reasonably highly in a career in finance. I manage the pressure ok and it’s quite competitive, which I don’t enjoy, but just try to focus and get the work done and go home/log off. I often work until mid evening and will usually but not always work Sunday evening for 4 ish hours to make the start of the week less stressful.

I have always considered working in teaching and very nearly did a week PGCE. I feel finance is such an empty job in comparison to teaching. I feel I would make more of a difference in teaching. I know it would be a pay cut but I’d also have longer holidays. I hear so much about the downsides to teaching though. Does anyone enjoy it? I know lesson planning takes up a lot of time but I think perhaps similar to how I work late now anyway? Just interested in whether I’m actually missing something (likely!) as I don’t know anyone personally in teaching other than one who really likes it but he works in the private sector.

I’m a teacher and I love my job. I am very lucky that I have found a school that is perfect for me so that has a huge impact. We are very overdue OFSTED so everyone is on high alert all the time. The paperwork is exhausting and a lot of it isn’t even for the benefit of the children. I saw a statistic once (although not verified so not sure how true it actually is) that a 4 year old asks 200-300 questions a day. In a class of 30 that’s nearly 10000 questions a day (and based on my class - probably entirely accurate!) can you imagine having to answer 10000 questions a day…
You say you do work outside your hours, that will continue, your list will NEVER be finished. But you will be paid less for it.
However if you find the right age group, and the right school it can absolutely be worth it!

I’m retired now after nearly 30 years and I loved it. I was in inner city comprehensives in three different cities. I would never have chosen a different career.

Day to day it is hard but looking back overall it is rewarding. Also I am the kind of person who needs challenge and to be accountable as otherwise I am unmotivated and I get bored so in that sense the job suited me.

I will say that my former colleagues say it is worse now than ever in terms of pupil behaviour and it was bad enough before.

I became a teacher in my mid 30s after 10+ years as a marketing manager, which I really enjoyed.

I couldn't love teaching more! I am physically knackered every day and my bladder misses not being governed by the school bell, but it's the best job ever.

it makes me yawn when teachers moan 'our work is never done'. That's true for all professional jobs! Unless you're clocking off your shift on a supermarket till, most to do lists are never ending. In marketing it wasn't like I finished each day or week feeling like my list was empty. As one campaign ended another (or ten) would already be running.

as PP have said, a commercial background is helpful for boundary setting, professional communication, IT literacy, reporting etc.

also consider not all teaching jobs are classroom teachers. You can make good money (and less out of hours work) as a substitute / relieving teacher.

or be a specialist teacher and teach PE or a language.

i will add im not in the UK, so no Ofsted stress. Not sure id enjoy it so much in England.

1. Not enough money in SEN to physically do the job. I cannot support the 1/3 of my class with SEN without an additional adult. Their needs are too great.

1. Not enough money in general education to physically do the job. I cannot teach without money for glue/tissues/pens/printing/chairs (I have 4 children sitting on very precarious chairs atm but no budget to replace)

1. Parents. I currently have 2 formal complaints about me (luckily the head rolls his eyes at them but still have to go through the process of investigating). First, I am bullying a small child because the parents refuse to accept their little darling could possibly put a foot wrong, despite the fact he is one of the rudest children I have ever taught. Second, because I have not declared publically (on their report) that their child is the brightest child in the world, ever and have used meaningless assessment data and ongoing classroom assessment to deem them exceeding in the majority, bit not all, subjects.

1. Behaviour. If we could fix point 1 and 3, behaviour would be OK. But while I cannot support all children in my class, behaviour naturally escalates. Similarly, when parents are arguing with you in front of the child about why their child shouldn't face consequences (and God knows what they say at home) the child knows they can do whatever the fuck they want.

1. Too much in the curriculum. Children need time to practice what they have learnt to embed it. There is no time for this which makes a significant chunk of teaching redundant for anyone that struggles with processing or long term memory.

1. No respite. No time in the day to do any of the fun things we used to in primary. It's all go, go, go. Imagine back to back presentations for 6-7 hours a day straight, with no time in between to even print what you need. So all the prep, down to printing and setting up your incredibly slow computer, is done in your own time.

1. Parental expectations - parents are responsible for their children. My job is to teach the national curriculum. Not provide your child with 1:1 tutoring for 11+, not to teach them to eat with cutlery, tie shoe laces or how to be a decent human being.

1. Pay. Not enough for the amount of stress.

1. The expectation of goodwill. I love school trips, plays, extra curricular but the expectation we will just do it from the goodness of our hearts and not be paid for it in time or money, is insulting.

10. The vitriol from the press, forums like MN and society in general. Without teachers, society would be fucked.

That's my top ten anyway.
I love the kids. I love seeing them grow and develop. But even that joy is getting less and less now.

I just think more and more the money is just crap.

okay - I have a small TLR, and am 0.8 - and I earn 40k. A job which was fully remote as an admin assistant was advertised on here for 35-40k.

although my job is 0.8 - I always work in evenings (can’t work on my day off as I have my small demanding child). Yes okay I get the holidays - but probably would find it easier and cheaper to be remote and be able to Not use childcare.

and blimey the behaviour management is tough. And being accused of being racist and having investigations completed. I might consider primary - though I’m sure this is more full on in that you get less PPA time.

i do occasionally like my job but most of the time I actually find teaching quite dull nowadays unfortunately. I might need to get out. I do like it when a child shows a huge interest in my subject, but most of the time it’s just boring and I often question whether my subject is actually important or whether I’m just wasting everybody’s time!

Agree with all of that!

Then you come on MN/social media to find posts saying…

Why don’t schools go on trips anymore?
Why are schools charging money for trips in a cost of living crisis?
Why can’t more teachers run fun clubs after school?
Why don’t schools sort out headlice?
Why can’t schools teach Makaton/First aid/musical tuition?
Why do I have to pay fines when my child is absent but teachers don’t get fined for Insets/strike days?
Why can’t teachers training days be in the holidays, don’t they have enough time off?
Why did my child’s teacher raise their voice at them, it hurt my DC’s feelings?
Why is my child’s teacher spending so much time on the ‘naughty’ kid instead of my child?
Why don’t schools refuse to take children in nappies?

etc etc

Do you want to teach primary or secondary? If secondary, which subject? The pros and cons can vary.

Teachers are scrutinised more than any other profession I know and I'm married to a doctor. There is a constant cycle of lesson observations, slt looking through your books, 'learning walks', display scrutinies. This is all on top of a heavy term time workload and formal inapection cycles. There can also be a lot of pressure from parents.

The lesson planning is pretty easy after the first year or two. Marking is very boring and time consuming.

The main issue is behaviour. It doesn’t matter how good your intentions are and how thoroughly you have planned. If you can’t get them to listen, your lessons won’t be very good. Children smell your fear and therefore your first lessons very tough. Younger beginner teachers seem to be able to cope with this better than older people who are coming from a profession where they have been respected and treated well.

If you are not a perfectionist, good at controlling a class and know your stuff, it is a good job (in the right school) but much, much more tiring than any other job that I have done. The holidays are phenomenal and I rarely work in the evenings or weekends. The pay is bad.

‘You’re only as good as your last lesson observation’ as well. It only takes one manager who doesn’t like you/thinks your face doesn’t fit or you’re too old or past it (or expensive), to ‘suddenly’ find fault in your teaching.

With that, comes intense monitoring, extra drop ins, unannounced observations, ‘support’ plans and regular meetings to discuss your next steps. You may have been an amazing teacher for 30 years, but it can be very easy if you are under immense pressure for long enough, for those providing your ‘support’ to find more things they don’t like if they push hard enough.

What is a, "Week PGCE"?

Teaching is hard and mostly thankless. You absolutely will do a lot more hours than you do now. There is no switching off. Holidays? What are they? If you mean the time "off" teachers get, it is mostly spent planning, making resources, sorting the classroom, wider school jobs, marking, inset days etc.

You'll spend a lot of your own money on resources. You can't teach without certain things. Glue, pencils etc. There is no funding for this. Anything more, expect to have to buy. There will also be children who break your heart because they don't have food, or shoes without holes, or a coat. You end up buying that too.

Then there are the parents. Ohhh the absolute worst part of teaching is the parents. They are entitled, selfish, aggressive, arrogant and will make your life a misery. You have to watch everything you say and do.

I don't hate teaching but if I was at a different point in my life (ie no high mortgage and young kids) I'd be getting out.
I always say that teaching is like any other job except there are 30+ people at any given time preventing you from doing it!
My main issues are-:

• Workload, there are so many pointless, menial tasks it is unteal
• Behaviour- there is an absolutely awful lack of respect for the profession from both students and parents.
• Micromanagement, to the point where often it feels like I am a student, not a professional!
• High levels of scrutiny, which I know is common in other professions
• Lack of flexible working- very difficult to navigate with young children, you really do miss so much
• Lack of money in education
• Pay- I know some people will disagree but comparatively to other similarly qualified professionals in industry, the pay is honestly pitiful.

I get where you’re coming from…and I would say that even vocations can run their course if the culture, funding and support isn’t there.

I worked in admin for years before moving into a more student facing support role. When I left my last setting I thought I’d never work in a school again as I had been so unhappy there.

I’m now in a very different school, considerably bigger and on paper a more challenging demographic but I absolutely love it!

So I absolutely wouldn’t use ‘vocation’ in that way, just trying to say that I think choosing a career in teaching, like some other professions, not as simple as just thinking ‘I like it, I’ll have a go’ iykwim?

On maternity atm and going back. Been teaching primary around 13 years now. I’m SLT as well and deputy head.

Yes as I referred to in my original post- I absolutely adapt planning - it’s child led. But it doesn’t take me that long. I go round in lessons and gage if they understand and look at marking and if they haven’t got it we redo. It doesn’t take me long to fill paper work in and who is the paperwork for? It’s not for me, it’s not for ofsted , and I can write a small comment down and redo the lesson using different methods. . I tell my students who I train to not get bogged down with paper work and to go and teach! Same with interventions- how long does it take me to plan that my children need to use numicon etc … minutes . I write it down on their IEPs and update regularly. I don’t see it as particularly timely and it’s ongoing so it’s done so regularly it doesn’t take much time at all. Marking- I find the highlighting and all the silly abbreviations pointless and numerous comments mad! - oral feedback and corrections done with myself or TA is much more beneficial, less time consuming and is actually helpful. I think I also plan less work. Less is more I feel so I can give the children the time to really understand the core principles.

I appreciate if you don’t have TAs it makes it far more harder. I use mine like they are teachers - they are the same as me and the children call them teachers. My TAs are my good friends - we bounce of each other and share ideas.

I just think teaching gets really negative press but I think it depends on your HT and SLT. The paperwork was ridiculous ( a few years ago) but it was led from the top, ofsted dont need to see reams of it or stressed teachers . If you can sit in front of ofsted or in your pupil progress meetings really know your children then you’re doing great . They need happy , energetic teachers who can teach . Let the paperwork come second ! And those displays… don’t need to be a masterpiece, it’s time to simplify teaching Again and enjoy it

The pay is appalling and there is minimal flexibility with time off.

I suppose it might be OK as a second salary in a household but not much in the way of career progression no matter how skilled you are. Head teachers barely make 100k. Anyone who is committed to reaching that level would be able to make multiples of that salary in a private sector role if they showed similar levels of commitment.

If you genuinely enjoy teaching then salary may not matter too much but from a personal economic point of view it makes no sense as a career.

It's because everyone thinks they can do the job (and do it well), but it takes a very specific skill set and personality to be good at the job and enjoy it.

Kids in my classes generally do very well and I am told by TAs that most of my sets behave better for me than they do for others, despite my autistic tendencies, which make interpersonal skills much harder for me.

But here is what you need, and why many of my younger colleagues flag:
-excellent interpersonal skills
-strong boundaries
-a very thick skin
-military discipline
-military organisational skills
-knowledge of who really runs the school (it's rarely the head)
-excellent IT skills
-a keen interest in your subject
-a working knowledge of the world of those who teach
-the ability to unabashedly beg, borrow and steal

If you lack one of the above, your life will be harder. Lack three or more and the job becomes almost impossible to do well.

Teaching is a great job for those who have the right skill set. I still enjoy it after 20 years and rarely get refused a position I set my eyes on (from middle management to senior leadership, I can freely step up and down as my private life demands).

It fits in well with my family life and enables me to still enjoy my children due to free weekends and holidays. But I wouldn't recommend it to many people.

Teach in Scotland. Head of department of 10, made up of 2 different subjects. Not a high performing school, challenging area with challenging kids, smaller budgets every year, increasing SEN kids.
I love it. Best job I ever had. 13 weeks holiday. Actual holidays. Maybe I do 1 or 2 days in the summer to tidy up. That's it. Out of the door by 5, in at 8ish. Lunch time clubs every day but it's great because the kids love it and they want to be there.
Colleagues who turned down easy promotions because our department was too much fun. Fun is the key. Make more fun.
The biggest issue in teaching is the professional teachers who've only ever been teachers, it's all so pressured for them. The difference from my last career to this is stark.
BTW, our pupils generally do great, good results, fun courses, minimal behaviour issues.
Helps to be a nice person to the kids. You can spot the ones who hate the kids a mile off.

See this, I disagree. A fully qualified teacher in Scotland makes £48516, median UK salary is about £33000. Yeah, that isn't appalling. My salary is 95th percentile in the UK as a PT.

Also, you'll have to direct me to the other jobs with the 13 weeks off.

Teaching pretty much precludes you from all high paying jobs no matter how talented or committed you are. Being just above median UK salary doesn’t get you far these days.

It’s OK when you’re young but how do you achieve the really big salaries later on in your career? It’s impossible.

With regards to time off while I appreciate it would appeal to some, longer holidays with inflexible dates would be no use to me. I prefer to have half the holidays but taken at times of my choice not mandated. For example I enjoy attending a lot of global sporting events as part of my holidays. If I was told I couldn’t attend certain ones because they were in the school term times that really wouldn’t work for me and I’d feel excluded from my social circle at times.

I would also not be keen on being rigidly attached to one place of work having no day to day flexibility to do more one day and less another.

Its a good job others think differently otherwise we’d all have to home school!

Dear God, that stuff would wear you down rapidly!
Then somebody somewhere decides it’s all balls and there is another pointless, time consuming new initiative..
I loved teaching in a private school which ignored a lot if this claptrap and let you get in with teaching.
Now retired and having great fun tutoring some delightful teenagers.

I love teaching, but finding the right school is VERY important. If SLT are supportive, you can cope with most of the other crap that gets thrown at you.

This is the crux of it. MATs tend to be the worst. The old style Head who treats staff and pupils as individuals is the best but rapidly a dying breed. Children are almost treated as units of production now.

It's so tiring. So much pressure to get sometimes very young children to perform at very high expectations. Huge amounts expected from teachers to support children with a vast array of different needs, including severe ones that we have no training for. I'm exhausted after being around 30 small children for 6.5 hours, then I have hours more work to do after that.

If you are pragmatic and hard working enough to be in finance AND care about the kids then it should be a good idea but I'd volunteer in a school first. Teaching is a particular skill set which I as a finance person don't have but it's not to say you don't have what it takes.

In terms of the job I've always preferred my well paid very hard work of a finance career. I dont mind the long hours and high pressure for better salary. I don't think Teaching is uniquely hard but there's a lot of moaning in the profession. Everyone hates the paperwork. Guess which bit of my job I hate?!

I see Teachers leaving school at about 5.15 (not many, most are gone by then) on the days I collect from after school club. They've usually been there since 8 ish as the staff car park starts to fill up when I'm dropping DC. As many finance people will tell you, 8-5.15 even with a couple of hours later in the evening would be a sweet deal.

I understand teaching pensions aren't as good as they used to be but as the private sector is SHIT then it's a neutral factor.

Holidays are a big plus. If you have DC then can only go away then anyway so the timing isn't a big problem for many mums. It's just that you will be stuck to school holidays even in later life.

It's difficult - and I think it depends on why you want to teach. I teach secondary because I love my subject, whereas my sister teaches primary as she loves children.

I love teaching. What I don't love is teenagers being rude, receiving death threats from students, paperwork and bureaucracy around data, long parents evenings with no breaks, unnecessary marking and workload, kids not able to sit still or be quiet for 5 minutes, and then be told it's not their fault. Unsupportive/bullying management have been an issue in previous schools too.

We're losing staff, and they're not being replaced because of budgets, which puts more pressure on existing staff. We're just surviving at this point, not teaching.