To have found my first mammogram really upsetting?

[YompingJo]

Got a letter through with very basic details if an appointment. Turned up and found the whole thing demeaning. Tiny room, intimidating machine taking up most of it. The radiologist was monosyllabic and bossy and manhandled me into the right position including grabbing each breast and shoving it into position, pushing other bits of my body out of the way, not once asking first. I know it's a necessary procedure, but a bit of sensitivity would have gone a long way, and having the respect to ask for consent before grabbing a breast is a basic consideration. I'm autistic and needed to know much more what to expect beforehand. The letter gave a way to request assistance in the case of SEN, but I don't consider myself to have SEN and didn't know what I'd need until I was right there, so that wasn't any help. There was a QR code for feedback, which I gave but I just feel... invaded and demeaned. AIBU?

I think some of the responses on this thread are very strange. Anyone who goes for a mammogram must surely understand that it must involve some manipulation of your breasts. When I had my first mammogram several years ago, it came with a leaflet which explained this, and if it hadn't have been clear what to expect, I would have googled.

I've probably had over 20 mammograms over the years, and have been thankful every time that I live in a country where they are free and readily available to anyone who needs them. I've experienced a range of attitudes from different radiographers, many of whom have been very matter of fact and clinical. The last thing I would want is to have a chatty radiologist - I'm there to have a mammogram carried out to see if my cancer has come back not to talk about the weather or how I need to be positioned! No-one has ever asked for my consent to manipulate my breasts into the right position or to move any other bit of me out of the way, and I would never expect that to happen. It's part of the mammogram process.

As for comments about that the machines could only have been designed by a man - i have no idea whether a man or woman designed the scanners, but as they've been I use for many years now, I'd assume by the law of averages thst it would have been a man. But I've often thought whether there could be a better design, and I can't think of a different way of producing the images that are needed.

I've often found mammograms can be very painful but I wouldn't be here now if it wasn't for the screening service and the grumpy, slightly rough woman in the portakabin in sainsburys car park who carried out my second routine mammogram.

Ok, and do you cut the same slack to people in other client facing roles? Are hotel staff allowed to be rude to you, or a masseuse to roughly grab you to get you on the massage table, or check out staff to grunt at you and snatch items out of the hand to be scanned?
On top of that, this is an intimate examination, and that needs to be acknowledged as a factor.

Im not a NHS hater, I had to have surgery recently that I’d put off for 5 years because of my trauma. Every single member of medical staff I met along the way was amazing, I couldn’t have asked for better. I was very upfront about my history which I’m sure helped, but not all women will feel comfortable or even able to do that.

I used to work in a non clinical role in the NHS dealing with members of the public. I found it so hideous that I swore I would never ever work with the public again. So I genuinely do have a lot of empathy and regard for people who work in the service industry, or any area where they are dealing with the public. People can behave in such a hideous way that I have the utmost respect for people in the NHS who perform such a difficult and vital role.

@Naunet I am truly glad you were treated with kindness in the NHS and I hope your surgery was successful.

for the express purpose of a mammogram or smear, they cannot do either without touching me. Impossible to carry out those tests without touching. I willingly went, I don't need to be asked if I want them to carry out the very test I attended for. Absolutely ridiculous.

I still expect a little preamble - "I'm about to insert the speculum, try and relax," rather than just putting it in without saying a word. And in the same way, I expect someone to mention they're about to touch my breast to move it. I know what is expected over all, but I still like to have at least a moment's warning before specific parts of the procedure.

Ok, so imagine you are going for a smear test. The nurse tells you to strip from the waist down, and position yourself on the table. After that, she does not talk at all... just carries out the test with no explaining or warning.
Would that be acceptable? If not, why not? After all, you knew what the test entails, and consented by being there.

I don't know why women still have to suffer mammograms anyway when we have PET/CT/MRI scanning. Studies have shown these methods, along with contrast media are more effective at detecting cancers. Mammograms are 2D and are inferior, but presumably cheaper.

I have had numerous PET/CT and MRI scans as well as ultrasounds for breast cancer. My breast surgeon said that the mammogram is the most effective screening tool. Those other tests are useful images to see the extent of an existing mass and can give very clear images. But the mammogram is the most effective for screening and detecting early changes.

You're only proving my point. I actually already have been treated like dogshit by the NHS. I've been permanently injured due to neglect, actually, amongst other things.

But you want to believe it's literally impossible. That scares me.

Ok, so imagine you are going for a smear test. The nurse tells you to strip from the waist down, and position yourself on the table. After that, she does not talk at all... just carries out the test with no explaining or warning. Would that be acceptable? If not, why not? After all, you knew what the test entails, and consented by being there

Yes, that would be acceptable. I don't need a blow by blow account of what she's doing!

Absolutely you should have been treated with dignity and I don’t understand these comments from people saying you are lucky to be offered the test. I have never had a mammogram, however I went to routine cervical smears for many years until the one instance where I was treated like a piece of meat on a conveyor belt, and spoken to as if I was an idiot by the nurse. I did not return for smears at that hospital. It’s a bad enough experience without having someone talk to you like you are just a lump of coal with no feelings.

Absolutely.

And this is exactly what’s supposed to happen.

It’s such a bizarre thread, there were a couple of posters who are actually training staff how to do it, and they confirmed as much yet some posters won’t rest.

Well, good for you.
Someone who has suffered trauma, is ND (as in OP's case), is their first time (also in OP's case), or is just plain anxious.... explaining things is vital.
It costs nothing, and takes no time at all.

You're not being unreasonable in the slightest. Even if they were busy. It doesn't add any time to the procedure to treat you with dignity and try and make you feel at ease - in fact I'd bet my house on the fact that it's how they are trained to treat patients. If you knew what to expect or not - you should never be treat that way or leave feeling as you did. Utter bollocks in some of the replies you're getting. Use your words? Vile.

It is part of the training.... a very basic part. Any HCP/AHP would fail their practical exams if they did not talk to and explain things to their patients when doing anything to them.
Some nurses even talk to their patients when carrying out last offices (laying them out after death).

Quite. I've worked in health care for many years and worked as a trainer for several more. I'm disgusted at some of the replies OP is getting. If anyone should be scolded for not using their words, it's the radiographer!

I have had many a conversation with a deceased patient. It's quite a privilege, and it's the sort of unfaltering respect that should be given by all HCP's all of the time. Some of them shouldn't be allowed in customer facing rolls, let alone be allowed to deal with people when they are at their most vulnerable

I had no idea mammograms involve the woman’s breasts being touched and manipulated by the radiographer, let alone painfully so. As a victim of SA, there’s no way I will be able to handle this from a stranger.

I’ve only once managed a smear - when I got to know one of the nurses at my GP surgery really well because of another health condition. She talked me into giving it another try, and had me put the speculum in myself, which made it bearable. Unfortunately she’s now retired and I can’t bear to open up about it all again to someone new.

OP if what happened to you had happened to me, I’d have gone into shock, not been able to say anything, and then started screaming, which happened at my first attempt at a smear (though I was spoken to reasonably kindly, and told what was going to happen, but I reacted to seeing the speculum. Hadn’t realised that it looks like an instrument of torture.) Please complain, if you feel up to it.

And all those of you who claim that turning up to an appointment means giving consent are very fucking lucky you’ve lived such trauma free lives. A medical professional should always explain what they’re about to do, at the start of the procedure, to ensure the patient understands (and can therefore withdraw consent if necessary).

But how on earth do you think a mammogram can be carried out without touching the women's breasts?

I had no idea mammograms involve the woman’s breasts being touched and manipulated by the radiographer, let alone painfully so. As a victim of SA, there’s no way I will be able to handle this from a stranger.

@Generallyfound 💐
This thread is definitely teaching me that it’s important to do my research before going in for any medical procedure. I have to admit that I didn’t bother Googling anything before my first mammogram so I had no idea what to expect. I’m supposed to be scheduling a colonoscopy this year (I’m procrastinating) and I will do my research beforehand.

I’ve not had one as too young, but they’ve asked permission or at least said I’m just going to do this, it will feel a bit uncomfortable etc at every smear. In fact every single treatment.

I was in hospital when pregnant with DD2 and the consultant asked my permission for his trainees to examine me. No problem. Trainee one started examining my bump without asking. He got a bollocking from the consultant about consent in front of the other trainee (and the whole ward heard.)

Surely by attending the appointment and entering the room you were giving consent?

It not nice, but im sure they have a very strict timetable and only have minutes to complete each test. That's why the offer appointments for more assistance.

🙄

Hi. I know what you mean and can sympathise. I have had breast cancer so lots of mammos. Generally the radiographers were lovely. One, however, has ver py abrupt and quite shitty with me when I could only get my arm so high due to a frozen shoulder and doing that was agony. Likewise, this time last year I had to have an abdominal scan - scanner was lovely and then an internal scan and the woman was really abrupt with me and very brisk in a frankly uncomfortable situation. She must have realised because then she was much nicer when she told me she'd seen a cyst. It did make me feel yuck though.

But how on earth do you think a mammogram can be carried out without touching the women's breasts?

I thought a machine did the mammography scan. The thought of standing topless and placing my breasts against a machine to be squished was quite bad enough - but the reality explained here sounds utterly unbearable.
A stranger who may or may not be brusque to me, and might not even warn me before grabbing my bare breasts, will feed them into the machine and then hold parts of them and push other parts of my body out of the way abruptly - that’s impossible for me.

He's the machine does the scan but your breasts need to be in exactly the right position first. I'm amazed that anyone in this day and age could be surprised that a medical professional would need to manipulate you into the right position.