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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Stop homeschooling your children.

655 replies

pentagonisapentagon · 26/04/2024 18:11

I run an educational consultancy and exam company. We produce books that most parents in our area of education will purchase. Home educating your children makes us money.

However. STOP. Now I don’t mean those that have children with severe issues (this is a small %, everyone likes to diagnose their children with some form of disorder and it isn’t those I’m talking about) who would benefit out the classroom / often awaiting a better school option.

I mean the parents who are tired with the education system - lots of moans that they can’t take their children for a holiday, annoyed about not being allowed make up, the rules being too hard. You can barely spell, stop trying to teach your children yourself. These children are being FAILED by their parents.

By all means, if you have the relationship, time, ability and means to provide a solid home education system (inc money for tutors which will be needed) - go ahead. Just ensure you’re covering the social aspect.

I am seeing the advice to home school EVERYWHERE. Mumsnet and Facebook filled with the poor advice. It’s detrimental to all parties involved.

I’d love to know others thoughts on this.

OP posts:
VulvaArmy · 14/06/2024 15:21

SwedeCarrotLimes · 14/06/2024 11:24

This.

I get the reason for homeschooling wrt bullying/additional needs etc. However, I'm not convinced a parent with little to no educational qualifications can effecitvely teach a dozen or so topics to the same standard as a dozen teachers qualified in 1 specific subject (I guess I'm specifically talking about secondary school here).

Granted not all teachers are great, but you can't underestimate the value of a group dynamic. Sometimes peers raise questions etc that end up improving your understanding of a topic.

There are thousands of tutors and tutor centres in the country, as well as many excellent on line schools . If older children want/need specialist teaching or group teaching then they can easily get it.

But education doesn’t have to be a top down process- by high school age home ed children often have excellent research and study skills and can access a lot on their own.

My 10 year old doesn’t expect me to teach him- he sits with his text books and work books or online stuff and work sheets etc and learns- I’m there for added discussion and explanation if he isn’t sure of anything.

Asherrain · 14/06/2024 15:33

You'd have to be pretty close minded to think that home educating can't be a more positive experience than school educating.
It opens up so much freedom. Freedom to do sports and activities whenever you choose, freedom to travel wherever and whether you choose for far less money - you can buy flights for next to nothing at certain times of year!
Freedom to visit museums and attractions when they aren't too busy to enjoy them. Freedom to wake up when you choose, to have slow mornings when needed, to rest when needed to be outside on beautiful days. Freedom to escape from people who are unkind or cruel to you, freedom from noisy classrooms and disruptive kids. Freedom to spend time as a family. But most importantly freedom to adapt education to individual needs and passions and skills. School is one size fits all, the amount of children who lose all enthusiasm for learning once in secondary school is mind blowing. They are taught to cram it all in and spit it all out in the exam.

There are so many resources now online, so many books, tutors, home schooling groups. It makes me laugh when people say that kids can't learn to socialise except at school, like home educating parents lock them away in isolation with no hobbies or interests or play dates.

I am not a home educating parent, we can't afford it for me to be around enough to do it, but I absolutely see the huge benefits in doing so and if I had enough space and enough time and enough money, I would seriously consider it provided my child wanted to.

Alltheyearround · 14/06/2024 18:05

For those questioning the social side of things. I don't currently Home Ed but I don't see DS getting good social interaction at secondary. There is no-one he wants to visit or see outside school. Socially it can be a bear pit at secondary. I remember all too well. Never bullied because I knew how to keep out of sight of bullies. Had some good friends as an upside but DS doesn't even seem to get that.

However, the thing I really wanted to say is that HE children/teens always seem to have better social skills as all the ones I have ever known have socialised with a broad range of ages and people. Much better at communicating with an adult than the average teen (I know, I work with teens at a college). Confident and assured to talk to anyone from 0 to 90 +

It is something that has really struck me over many years of knowing different cohorts of HE children/teens. The first I met where when I was in mys 20's at housing coops/communities and then lots more over recent years. I think it does often have a very positive impact on social skills.

For millions of years we didn't gather children/teens of one age group/year together in groups of 30 (or schools of 1000). It's a relatively recent educational thing, since the industrial revolution.

Funny how we survived all those millennia socially and educationally. Normal human interactions over vast tracts of geography and history we didn't operate with large classes and large schools. I mean, who thought it was a good idea to put all the 12 to 16 year olds together in one huge building. What could possibly go wrong!

School suits some kids, it has some benefits and upsides for some parents and children but for a lot its utterly miserable and not a way of cultivating a love of lifelong learning. I have never had a gladder day than leaving secondary. It was like walking out of the prison gates into freedom. I loved learning (still do) but school squashed me in many ways even though on the surface I was an average to good student. I see it doing much the same to DS if I'm honest. Like me, he tolerates it at best.

thefamous5 · 14/06/2024 18:12

@Sharptonguedwoman

I work from home, I'm a freelancer. Dad works full time. I work around him - I'm not teaching him, I'm facilitating his learning so while he's doing online tuition, research projects etc I'm in the same room but working

thefamous5 · 14/06/2024 18:14

@Sharptonguedwoman

Socialising - friends out of school hours, local home Ed groups, library groups, St John's cadets, swimming group, youth club, a breakfast club at the local youth centre, online friends.

Flittingaboutagain · 14/06/2024 18:18

Alltheyearround · 14/06/2024 18:05

For those questioning the social side of things. I don't currently Home Ed but I don't see DS getting good social interaction at secondary. There is no-one he wants to visit or see outside school. Socially it can be a bear pit at secondary. I remember all too well. Never bullied because I knew how to keep out of sight of bullies. Had some good friends as an upside but DS doesn't even seem to get that.

However, the thing I really wanted to say is that HE children/teens always seem to have better social skills as all the ones I have ever known have socialised with a broad range of ages and people. Much better at communicating with an adult than the average teen (I know, I work with teens at a college). Confident and assured to talk to anyone from 0 to 90 +

It is something that has really struck me over many years of knowing different cohorts of HE children/teens. The first I met where when I was in mys 20's at housing coops/communities and then lots more over recent years. I think it does often have a very positive impact on social skills.

For millions of years we didn't gather children/teens of one age group/year together in groups of 30 (or schools of 1000). It's a relatively recent educational thing, since the industrial revolution.

Funny how we survived all those millennia socially and educationally. Normal human interactions over vast tracts of geography and history we didn't operate with large classes and large schools. I mean, who thought it was a good idea to put all the 12 to 16 year olds together in one huge building. What could possibly go wrong!

School suits some kids, it has some benefits and upsides for some parents and children but for a lot its utterly miserable and not a way of cultivating a love of lifelong learning. I have never had a gladder day than leaving secondary. It was like walking out of the prison gates into freedom. I loved learning (still do) but school squashed me in many ways even though on the surface I was an average to good student. I see it doing much the same to DS if I'm honest. Like me, he tolerates it at best.

Edited

The social history of formal education is so interesting. I don't think many people realise how different western models of education are to other cultures and civilisations over time.

Alltheyearround · 14/06/2024 18:30

@Flittingaboutagain spot on, it's such an interesting area to look into.

Of course, pros and cons. In a small tribe you couldn't get away from someone you really didn't like and had to make polite conversation with them (bit like my work place). Pros - you had access to a variety of useful practical skills and knowledge. Cons - you had no idea what bacteria was or basic hygiene...

AppleCrumbCake · 14/06/2024 20:07

taken from https://monkeymum.blog/2015/09/13/time-is-precious/

So….. How much time is spent actually learning?
Each school day lasts from 9:00 to 3:15.
That’s 6 hours and 15 minutes.
But not all of that is learning time:
Deduct the 15 minute morning break and the 1 hour lunch break.
Deduct the 10 minute “register and notices” time for morning and again for the afternoon, and the 10 minute end of day “packing up, coat-fetching, giving out letters” time.
Deduct the daily 20 minute assembly, which usually exists to either practise a religion, or encourage conformity with stories based around following school rules (or “values” or something similar), or celebrate the fact that they have complied and conformed and earned their merits or certificates for behaving well and following rules. None of which are necessary if you are educated at home.
Deduct the first 5 minutes of each of the 4 main lessons, because coming in after an energetic, exhilarating bout of relative freedom on the playground takes time, and because children are not robots who can instantly switch from loud, physical exertion and play, to a focused, concentrating, learning mindset at the flick of a switch, or the ring of a bell, or the blow of a whistle.
Deduct the final 5 minutes of each of those lessons, as this is tidying up time, collecting book time, deciding who’s on whose team at playground football time, sitting up straight time, arms folded, legs straight, looking at the teacher, waiting to be dismissed time.
Advertisement
Privacy Settings
Deduct 10 minutes from each of those 4 lessons for the time simply spent taking a brain break (or more likely a boredom break), because even as adults we can rarely stay fully focused on a task for an hour, unless it is a real passion, so we take little breaks: fetch a drink, have a little stretch or walk about, go to the toilet, ask a friend how they are getting on, or just let our minds wander for a few minutes before getting back on-task. Kids do this too, and it’s natural, until it’s metaphorically beaten out of them in the classroom environment.
Deduct 5 minutes from each session, for the time that is wasted when the teacher has to deal with behaviour issues before continuing the instructions, or the time you spend waiting for an answer from somebody else that you already know, even though your hand was first up, but the teacher always has to count to ten before asking anyone and then always picks someone else because they have to target their questions fairly to all pupils.
Deduct 5 minutes (at least) from the day, for the time spent walking in single file, as the teacher herds the class from one room to another, or to the hall, or the playground.
So far we have deducted 3 hours and 50 minutes from the school day.
Our 6 hours and 15 minutes is now down to 2 hours and 25 minutes. And that’s on a good day.
This equates to 12 hours and 5 minutes per week.
However, in an average school week there are whole time-tabled sessions that are pointless, which serve no purpose in relation to learning, or can be discounted because they simply do not apply in the home ed setting.
For example, the hour spent singing in “hymn practise” – see my thoughts on assemblies above.
And during each of the two PE lessons, 20 minutes (10 mins at start, 10 mins at end) is spent collecting kit, getting changed, and waiting for the slow coaches to tie the laces on their trainers. Also deduct another 5 minutes from each of these lessons for the walk to and from the changing rooms and to whichever sports pitches are being used that lesson.
Deduct the half hour PSHE lesson, because in home education you live this stuff. You don’t sit and learn it in a 30 minute lesson; it is part of your everyday life, running continuously through everything you do.
Deduct the 20 minute “golden time” – the reward for complying all week, and the necessary motivation, fed to children in order to keep classroom-based learning going.
These add up to another 2 hours and 40 minutes, that I’m deducting from my weekly total.
Advertisement
Privacy Settings
So, in a week that started with 31 hours and 15 minutes, we are now down to 9 hours and 25 minutes.
Averaged over the 5 days in the week, that makes 1 hour and 53 minutes, per day.
In a school year there are 190 days (I’ve already taken out the holidays and the teacher training days).
Deduct 1 bank holiday and 4 (as a rough average) sick days (or occasional sneaky holiday days because going one day before the end of term meant saving £300 in flight and hotel costs – who can blame you?).
So 185 days.
That makes 348 hours and 25 minutes of useful learning time per year. So far.
Just a few more “dead” hours to take off, from across the year…
Deduct 2 hours for sitting as an audience, watching other class’s Christmas plays (also known as final dress rehearsals) and 2 hours watching other class’s End of Year plays (it may be fun to watch, and I’m not saying they shouldn’t, but I’m deducting it for its lack of learning value).
Deduct half an hour for waiting in line to have your school photos taken.
Deduct an hour for the Christmas service, and another for the Easter service. Ok, so maybe your family is religious, but if that’s the case, you’d be doing these things at home anyway, wouldn’t you?
Deduct 2 hours for the assessment tests in maths and reading at the end of term 1, which serve no purpose for learning, other than to obtain a number by which the school can “track the progress” of a child, though it is not really progress it tracks, but rather their ability to answer questions in the way the answer booklet requires to get a mark.
Repeat this for the tests at the end of terms 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 (except for a year 6 child, in which case these figures should be doubled).
Deduct 2 hours for the afternoon of the class Christmas parties. And another 2 hours for the afternoon of the Christmas film.
Deduct the entire last day of the school year, which is spent colouring, playing games or watching DVDs.
Deduct 2 hours for time spent traveling on a coach or train or walking, on a school trip day, unless you want to count the game of noughts and crosses, top trumps and I spy that fill these journeys.
Deduct half an hour for each term, for over-running class assemblies or “Achievement” assemblies – please no more assemblies.
Advertisement
Privacy Settings
Deduct half an hour for the ritual end of year whole school assembly, in which many goodbyes and teacher send offs occur, and which may only be half an hour, but in the late July afternoon heat in a school hall packed with sweaty children and sweatier teachers, feels like a lot longer.
Deduct half an hour for all the times over the year that the head-teacher has to come to your class to have a serious discussion (telling-off) about certain things that have been going on, of such a serious nature that all learning has to stop while he reminds the whole class of those school rules, even though everybody knows full well which one or two people were involved, and why do the whole class always get the blame anyway?
Which takes the total number of useful learning hours throughout the year down to 315 hours and 55 minutes.
Averaging that out over the school year, we are now down to just 100 minutes per school day.
This is what schools class as full-time and efficient education, as set out by law.
Considering that if you home educate, you are in your learning environment every one of the 365 days in the year, this equates to 51 minutes per day.
Just 51 minutes of learning per day, would achieve the same length of time spent learning, as a schooled child.
As I said earlier, I’m not anti-school. 51 minutes per day, actively learning, sounds brilliant to me. But what about all the other hours spent in school?
Our family time is too precious for that.

Time is Precious

How much time in school, is actually spent learning? I’ve been in the education system, one way or another, for 30 of my 35 years: first as a school pupil, then as a University student, and t…

https://monkeymum.blog/2015/09/13/time-is-precious/

Asherrain · 14/06/2024 20:30

AppleCrumbCake · 14/06/2024 20:07

taken from https://monkeymum.blog/2015/09/13/time-is-precious/

So….. How much time is spent actually learning?
Each school day lasts from 9:00 to 3:15.
That’s 6 hours and 15 minutes.
But not all of that is learning time:
Deduct the 15 minute morning break and the 1 hour lunch break.
Deduct the 10 minute “register and notices” time for morning and again for the afternoon, and the 10 minute end of day “packing up, coat-fetching, giving out letters” time.
Deduct the daily 20 minute assembly, which usually exists to either practise a religion, or encourage conformity with stories based around following school rules (or “values” or something similar), or celebrate the fact that they have complied and conformed and earned their merits or certificates for behaving well and following rules. None of which are necessary if you are educated at home.
Deduct the first 5 minutes of each of the 4 main lessons, because coming in after an energetic, exhilarating bout of relative freedom on the playground takes time, and because children are not robots who can instantly switch from loud, physical exertion and play, to a focused, concentrating, learning mindset at the flick of a switch, or the ring of a bell, or the blow of a whistle.
Deduct the final 5 minutes of each of those lessons, as this is tidying up time, collecting book time, deciding who’s on whose team at playground football time, sitting up straight time, arms folded, legs straight, looking at the teacher, waiting to be dismissed time.
Advertisement
Privacy Settings
Deduct 10 minutes from each of those 4 lessons for the time simply spent taking a brain break (or more likely a boredom break), because even as adults we can rarely stay fully focused on a task for an hour, unless it is a real passion, so we take little breaks: fetch a drink, have a little stretch or walk about, go to the toilet, ask a friend how they are getting on, or just let our minds wander for a few minutes before getting back on-task. Kids do this too, and it’s natural, until it’s metaphorically beaten out of them in the classroom environment.
Deduct 5 minutes from each session, for the time that is wasted when the teacher has to deal with behaviour issues before continuing the instructions, or the time you spend waiting for an answer from somebody else that you already know, even though your hand was first up, but the teacher always has to count to ten before asking anyone and then always picks someone else because they have to target their questions fairly to all pupils.
Deduct 5 minutes (at least) from the day, for the time spent walking in single file, as the teacher herds the class from one room to another, or to the hall, or the playground.
So far we have deducted 3 hours and 50 minutes from the school day.
Our 6 hours and 15 minutes is now down to 2 hours and 25 minutes. And that’s on a good day.
This equates to 12 hours and 5 minutes per week.
However, in an average school week there are whole time-tabled sessions that are pointless, which serve no purpose in relation to learning, or can be discounted because they simply do not apply in the home ed setting.
For example, the hour spent singing in “hymn practise” – see my thoughts on assemblies above.
And during each of the two PE lessons, 20 minutes (10 mins at start, 10 mins at end) is spent collecting kit, getting changed, and waiting for the slow coaches to tie the laces on their trainers. Also deduct another 5 minutes from each of these lessons for the walk to and from the changing rooms and to whichever sports pitches are being used that lesson.
Deduct the half hour PSHE lesson, because in home education you live this stuff. You don’t sit and learn it in a 30 minute lesson; it is part of your everyday life, running continuously through everything you do.
Deduct the 20 minute “golden time” – the reward for complying all week, and the necessary motivation, fed to children in order to keep classroom-based learning going.
These add up to another 2 hours and 40 minutes, that I’m deducting from my weekly total.
Advertisement
Privacy Settings
So, in a week that started with 31 hours and 15 minutes, we are now down to 9 hours and 25 minutes.
Averaged over the 5 days in the week, that makes 1 hour and 53 minutes, per day.
In a school year there are 190 days (I’ve already taken out the holidays and the teacher training days).
Deduct 1 bank holiday and 4 (as a rough average) sick days (or occasional sneaky holiday days because going one day before the end of term meant saving £300 in flight and hotel costs – who can blame you?).
So 185 days.
That makes 348 hours and 25 minutes of useful learning time per year. So far.
Just a few more “dead” hours to take off, from across the year…
Deduct 2 hours for sitting as an audience, watching other class’s Christmas plays (also known as final dress rehearsals) and 2 hours watching other class’s End of Year plays (it may be fun to watch, and I’m not saying they shouldn’t, but I’m deducting it for its lack of learning value).
Deduct half an hour for waiting in line to have your school photos taken.
Deduct an hour for the Christmas service, and another for the Easter service. Ok, so maybe your family is religious, but if that’s the case, you’d be doing these things at home anyway, wouldn’t you?
Deduct 2 hours for the assessment tests in maths and reading at the end of term 1, which serve no purpose for learning, other than to obtain a number by which the school can “track the progress” of a child, though it is not really progress it tracks, but rather their ability to answer questions in the way the answer booklet requires to get a mark.
Repeat this for the tests at the end of terms 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 (except for a year 6 child, in which case these figures should be doubled).
Deduct 2 hours for the afternoon of the class Christmas parties. And another 2 hours for the afternoon of the Christmas film.
Deduct the entire last day of the school year, which is spent colouring, playing games or watching DVDs.
Deduct 2 hours for time spent traveling on a coach or train or walking, on a school trip day, unless you want to count the game of noughts and crosses, top trumps and I spy that fill these journeys.
Deduct half an hour for each term, for over-running class assemblies or “Achievement” assemblies – please no more assemblies.
Advertisement
Privacy Settings
Deduct half an hour for the ritual end of year whole school assembly, in which many goodbyes and teacher send offs occur, and which may only be half an hour, but in the late July afternoon heat in a school hall packed with sweaty children and sweatier teachers, feels like a lot longer.
Deduct half an hour for all the times over the year that the head-teacher has to come to your class to have a serious discussion (telling-off) about certain things that have been going on, of such a serious nature that all learning has to stop while he reminds the whole class of those school rules, even though everybody knows full well which one or two people were involved, and why do the whole class always get the blame anyway?
Which takes the total number of useful learning hours throughout the year down to 315 hours and 55 minutes.
Averaging that out over the school year, we are now down to just 100 minutes per school day.
This is what schools class as full-time and efficient education, as set out by law.
Considering that if you home educate, you are in your learning environment every one of the 365 days in the year, this equates to 51 minutes per day.
Just 51 minutes of learning per day, would achieve the same length of time spent learning, as a schooled child.
As I said earlier, I’m not anti-school. 51 minutes per day, actively learning, sounds brilliant to me. But what about all the other hours spent in school?
Our family time is too precious for that.

I love this! So true

benefitstaxcredithelp · 16/06/2024 08:34

Copernicus321 · 13/06/2024 13:35

OK, I am going to be slightly different here on this thread. I'm going to answer as someone who was home educated, taken out of school from the age of 13. From my perspective, all I can say to those parents who are thinking of taking their children out of school is don't! There maybe circumstances where a child with SEN might benefit from HE if they are being failed by the school but for other children I cannot emphasise the importance of a school in the development of social skills and personal confidence. My years of HE were the lowest point of my life. I may appear to be confident and have had a successful career but it's been a complete act. From being a normally buoyant child up until I was 13, ever since I've been plagued by a lack of confidence, low self-esteem, at heart I'm socially awkward although this may not come across to people I meet. Admittedly in my case the timing couldn't have been worse, the teens are a critical period in personal development so perhaps I'm a worst case, in addition I was also very isolated living in a small village. My parents did try to organise interaction with children my own age but occasional meet-ups really can't compensate for the companionship, face time and interaction children get from attending school on a daily basis. School is so much more than about education, I can't emphasise this enough.

I’m sorry you went through this but your very isolated experience 50 years ago is totally different to how kids are home educated today (mine included).

You could never convince me today that school (especially secondary) is in any way a healthy form of socialization for children/teens.

sevsal · 16/06/2024 08:37

I home ed, I don't follow a curriculum, DD won't be working towards sitting exams and we don't 'socialise' within groups either.

DD is disabled. DD is selective mute. DD cannot be out of the house at any sort of venue for more than about an hour. DD need specialist support which a school cannot give. DD is happy. The end.

benefitstaxcredithelp · 16/06/2024 08:54

sevsal · 16/06/2024 08:37

I home ed, I don't follow a curriculum, DD won't be working towards sitting exams and we don't 'socialise' within groups either.

DD is disabled. DD is selective mute. DD cannot be out of the house at any sort of venue for more than about an hour. DD need specialist support which a school cannot give. DD is happy. The end.

I’m happy to hear your dd is happy despite her challenges.
Really what else matters other than happiness and health in our kids.

We are so obsessed by the notion of our children socializing skills and obsessed with preparing them for the adult world. But there are so many more qualities which are important to learn. Kindness, love of learning, curiosity, self motivation, compassion, happiness etc. Not to mention just enjoying childhood!

Thank goodness home education is a safety net for so many ❤️

sevsal · 16/06/2024 09:41

@benefitstaxcredithelp

Thank you, your response means a lot.

That's not the kind of response I expected and while I didn't post to be inflammatory, I do usually get met with some sort of objection from people who don't quite understand that people vary.

AppleCrumbCake · 16/06/2024 12:33

It’s easy to put state schooling on a pedestal because its the norm but the truth is that it fails a lot of children.

WaitingForMojo · 16/06/2024 15:58

benefitstaxcredithelp · 16/06/2024 08:34

I’m sorry you went through this but your very isolated experience 50 years ago is totally different to how kids are home educated today (mine included).

You could never convince me today that school (especially secondary) is in any way a healthy form of socialization for children/teens.

Equally, I would say the same about my experience at secondary school. It’s such a shame this poster had such a negative experience of EHE but nobody can know how it would have been had they attended school.

The social experiences I had at school weren’t positive ones, and the educational achievement was down to me, not the school. Secondary school destroyed my mental health.

Floortile · 16/06/2024 16:47

AppleCrumbCake · 16/06/2024 12:33

It’s easy to put state schooling on a pedestal because its the norm but the truth is that it fails a lot of children.

Yes, it fails a lot of children: In the 2021 to 2022 school year, 49.8% of pupils in England got a grade 5 or above in GCSE English and maths

  • out of all local authorities, Sutton (in London) had the highest percentage of pupils who got a grade of 5 or above in GCSE English and maths (69.3%)

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/education-skills-and-training/11-to-16-years-old/a-to-c-in-english-and-maths-gcse-attainment-for-children-aged-14-to-16-key-stage-4/latest/

GCSE English and maths results

Pupils from the Chinese ethnic group were the most likely out of all ethnic groups to get a grade 5 or above in GCSE English and maths (80.0%).

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/education-skills-and-training/11-to-16-years-old/a-to-c-in-english-and-maths-gcse-attainment-for-children-aged-14-to-16-key-stage-4/latest

Youdontevengohere · 16/06/2024 21:14

Floortile · 16/06/2024 16:47

Yes, it fails a lot of children: In the 2021 to 2022 school year, 49.8% of pupils in England got a grade 5 or above in GCSE English and maths

  • out of all local authorities, Sutton (in London) had the highest percentage of pupils who got a grade of 5 or above in GCSE English and maths (69.3%)

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/education-skills-and-training/11-to-16-years-old/a-to-c-in-english-and-maths-gcse-attainment-for-children-aged-14-to-16-key-stage-4/latest/

It depends on whether you think exam results are the only measure of success, I guess.

WaitingForMojo · 17/06/2024 07:54

Youdontevengohere · 16/06/2024 21:14

It depends on whether you think exam results are the only measure of success, I guess.

Not really. So many young people are failed emotionally and socially by the school system.

OceanicBoundlessness · 17/06/2024 19:23

Youdontevengohere · 16/06/2024 21:14

It depends on whether you think exam results are the only measure of success, I guess.

I think it's a bit of a shame that schools in our area have a 50% pass rate in English and maths (Grade 4 and above). Personally I don't think exam results are the only measure of success but I would hope if a child (learning difficulties aside) attended school from age 4 to age 16 they might at least leave with the basic requirements that most jobs ask for. 50 percent seems on the low side.

Elleherd · 17/06/2024 20:33

OceanicBoundlessness · 17/06/2024 19:23

I think it's a bit of a shame that schools in our area have a 50% pass rate in English and maths (Grade 4 and above). Personally I don't think exam results are the only measure of success but I would hope if a child (learning difficulties aside) attended school from age 4 to age 16 they might at least leave with the basic requirements that most jobs ask for. 50 percent seems on the low side.

Edited

It isn't why we pulled out to home ed, there where much bigger issues, but, where we pulled out of had 22% Grade 4 and above in English and maths.
I don't remember the exact figures but of those 22% around 1/2 where grade 4s.
The school claimed it was the intake and they'd made great progress, but the school said a lot of things I found difficult to swallow.

AppleCrumbCake · 18/06/2024 00:11

Floortile · 16/06/2024 16:47

Yes, it fails a lot of children: In the 2021 to 2022 school year, 49.8% of pupils in England got a grade 5 or above in GCSE English and maths

  • out of all local authorities, Sutton (in London) had the highest percentage of pupils who got a grade of 5 or above in GCSE English and maths (69.3%)

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/education-skills-and-training/11-to-16-years-old/a-to-c-in-english-and-maths-gcse-attainment-for-children-aged-14-to-16-key-stage-4/latest/

academic achievement is one one measure of success. However the home educated children I know have flown academically

OceanicBoundlessness · 18/06/2024 01:49

AppleCrumbCake · 18/06/2024 00:11

academic achievement is one one measure of success. However the home educated children I know have flown academically

And some have flown in other ways. Some of these children have a massive amount of emotional intelligence.

Tiredalwaystired · 18/06/2024 12:30

Actually that’s a good point. I know a home schooled kid who is head and shoulders ahead academically at eleven. So from an academic perspective it’s been fantastic for him. He’d be confident to do a few GCSEs even at this point I’m sure.

However, his emotional intelligence is really poor. Any gentle telling off or criticism and the boy crumbles. He has zero resilience which is really worrying as he tries to get further ahead in the world. He also has no time for anyone of his own age as he sees them as academically inferior and uninteresting (which in his case is probably true)

So it’s 50/50 in my mind whether home schooling has been a positive for him. It depends on what you would consider a success.

Elleherd · 18/06/2024 12:59

Tiredalwaystired · 18/06/2024 12:30

Actually that’s a good point. I know a home schooled kid who is head and shoulders ahead academically at eleven. So from an academic perspective it’s been fantastic for him. He’d be confident to do a few GCSEs even at this point I’m sure.

However, his emotional intelligence is really poor. Any gentle telling off or criticism and the boy crumbles. He has zero resilience which is really worrying as he tries to get further ahead in the world. He also has no time for anyone of his own age as he sees them as academically inferior and uninteresting (which in his case is probably true)

So it’s 50/50 in my mind whether home schooling has been a positive for him. It depends on what you would consider a success.

The question is do you think if he'd gone to an average state school, it would have improved his emotional intelligence and resilience and cause him to think others of his age were not academically inferior and uninteresting?

Or is it equally possible he would be exactly the same disposition, or possibly worse following equal rejection and bullying, but not be doing so well academically?

My Ds made his first friends (since pre school) once home educated at secondary level.
He was too visibly ASD to be accepted by others in the competitive who's cool, and who's not, school system, and the ridiculing and bullying started at 4.* *Other kids rejected him for his differences well before the adults caught on.
Unsurprisingly he rejected them as much as they rejected him.

We kept going until they literally tried to kill him and armed police were escorting him. I think we showed far too much surface resilience and far too little emotional intelligence in not home educating earlier.

Tiredalwaystired · 18/06/2024 13:28

So actually, my gut feeling is very much the former. He was always going to be exceedingly bright - the bigger issue with formal education would have been boredom. But the flip side of that is that he just hasn’t learned the “real world” which is also a required skill.