Students to be taken out of school for holidays

[Spinachandcheese1]

To clarify, I am mum of two young kids - not yet primary school age!

I am a bit puzzled on this hot topic on whether students should be allowed to be taken out of school for holidays mid-term...

Surely, holidays are less expensive mid-term, but how can a kid miss whatever is taught at school/miss homework/miss new topics that they will learn, just to go on holidays?

How will this kid be examined at at school test in this "lost" knowledge at a later day? For example, if they learn about the rivers of the UK or about decimals in maths or a historic event and then the kids will have to somehow know all these things that they would have learnt in this "missed week", how would that happen?

Please forgive if I am worried unnecessarily, as I said I don't have school aged kids to know what's happening but this is something that concerned me.

AIBU - Kids won't learn anything important in a week that will have an impact

AINBU - Kids will struggle to catch up academically on their return

Thinking about it, perhaps things like fines for parental decisions only antagonises parents and sets schools and parents against each other when they should be working together.

Ha I see 😅😂 sorry! read too quickly.
Glad you manage to get away!

It's not a hood ideato muss secondary school but primary not an issue. It's not like they do decimals once then never again or whatever. Kids are ill and still manage. School closes at the drop of a hat nowadays so teaching time presumably unimportant.

I don't take my dc out for a full weeks holiday but would miss a day or 2 to avoid crowds at the airport. Nowadays a couple of days before is just as expensive as the weekend of the holidays. Its quite depressing.

Precisely this!

Where I teach (in a county in Wales) headteachers can still grant up to ten days leave for annual holidays, as long as the pupil's attendance is otherwise good - though it is still frowned upon in exam years in high school.

As the teacher, it's a bit of a nightmare accounting for the different parts of learning that a child misses, especially if in the middle of a sequence of preparing for a final piece of writing, for example (I'm upper primary). But not really much different to when any of them have been poorly and have missed days.

I won't set work for them to do on holiday though. That's taking the mick. If you want them to not miss work or have to make it up later, then don't take them out of school.

Most children never really catch up, the gaps can cause quite a few difficulties for them longer term too, especially in maths. I wouldn't do it personally. I'd rather save for a lot longer if need be and just go in the holidays.

As a kid I missed a few weeks here and there as I played sport at a high level and travelled abroad for tournaments. I was also ahead academically and had a headteacher for a mum who was hands on with revision/homework etc so picking up what was missed was fine. I got all A*/A at GCSE (not sure what that is in the new numbers but the highest 2 grades available at the time), including taking GCSE maths early and got an A at AS level maths in yr11 despite definitely missing at least 1 full week of school a year plus numerous afternoons

I would imagine the outcome might not be similar for those struggling academically, with disinterested parents and a chaotic home life. I’m aware it makes me quite privileged to come from that sort of household, but it does frustrate me a little bit how those conscientious families are now forced to be treated like the feckless ones with fines and threats for a week here and there when the outcomes are clearly not the same.

How is this relevant to 2024?
Absenteeism is at an all time hight nowadays, and not all kids are as bright as you were.

Our children catches up no problems.
We always plan so nothing important is on at school.

A lot of people work at weekends/Christmas/Easter/Bankholidays/ NewyYear ect and aren't able to travel these holidays. I do. A lot of people do. A lot of people forget that because they don't.
We have family outside UK and take part in weddings, funerals, big birthdays and other important family events and it needs time for traveling.

Our children. Our choice. They don't belong to school or society. But we never expect school to take responsibility for homework or missed classes. We use a tutor if needed.

This school year we have asked for fours days. They were given without any questions.

WTF??? Maths v Music? What teacher in their right mind is even going to go down that particular rabbit hole? And they made life a bit tricky for you? poor you!!!

We used to take DS out usually for a week to tag onto half term, this was in the days before fines when you could just request up to ten days for holidays in the year, it didn't make any difference, he still got As and A* as expected in his GCSEs.

Sorry @Antibetty i seem to have quoted you in error

Are there any actual teachers/TAs commenting on this? I have worked across all primary year groups and I can tell you absences for holidays do set children back. Also parents rarely do this just once during a child's school career. Usually the same parents take their DCs out year after year so over the long term, it does affect them. I would also like to add that Foundation and year 1 are the most vital years for attendance. They learn so much, it's hard for children who are absent for long periods to properly catch up.

I’ve never taken any of mine out.

You sign up for school, you make a commitment to have them there everyday, bar illness.

(Not that we can afford a holiday even in term time 😂)

We took DD out of primary school a couple of times, but once she was at secondary school it was a no no. I felt that her education was far more important than a week in the Med. Besides, she would have been too anxious about missing stuff and falling behind.

Statistically, the education of children who miss a lot of school does suffer, so while there are brainy outliers where "it didn't affect me" it isn't true of the vast majority.

Yes, I've taught most years in primary and think for a lot of children it's fine. I work part-time and have taken my own summer-born out because she's GD across the board so I have no concerns.

I'd far rather we had a conversation about why the majority of parents don't consistently read with their children more than twice a week after about Y2 or help them learn their times tables. I'd rather talk about childhood obesity and spending time with your children outside. Missing 5 days a year for a holiday really isn't on my radar given all the challenges we face in school now. As for the idea it's selfish, as one pp said, well I find that ludicrous. For every child who is off, I can spend more time supporting other children in class. There is simply no time to catch anyone up, so it doesn't have any impact on anyone else when that child returns.

That's not how its done in KS2, a new topic per day in English and Maths. It's not recapped till the following year and then we have identify the children with gaps, try and plug them.

I’ll never understand the not reading thing. We read every morning while I do their hair. It eats in to zero time and keeps minds off any knots from sleeping.

I am a primary TA and you're correct. The gaps are never really filled as the children do not really catch up, as parents you may not notice but educators do.

The child then feels disheartened when its recapped the following academic year as all their peers have knowledge of the subject and they don't.

Showing your kids that a holiday is more important than school is crappy parenting.

As a GP, I see lots of parenting which is much worse than taking kids out of school. There are degrees. But taking kids out of school in term time for a holiday is setting a poor example and is poor parenting.

And for people who do not take their children out during Y6 or SATS week, it really is too late by that point. There is about only a tiny bit of new learning in Y6, the rest they should already know and should be quickly recapped. It becomes obvious who has gaps.

I am a primary TA and you're correct. The gaps are never really filled as the children do not really catch up, as parents you may not notice but educators do

@FcukTheDay but the "not really catching up", what does it mean in practice and does it matter?

My son was off school for weeks with glandular fever, his GCSE results were very good, in line with my other children. He did a bit of home study when well enough. Sure there were whole topics he missed and will never fully "catch up" to the extent of his peers who were there - but overall he knew enough.

@FcukTheDay I totally agree. Also, it's often the dcs who don't read at home or do their times tables that are the ones who are taken out for holidays. I remember going on a school trip last year and I sat on the coach with the mum of the weakest child in my class, who had missed two weeks in the autumn term due to a family holiday, that her dh insisted on the holiday because 'year 1 didn't really matter' 😡.

@Octomama I mean catch up as in the knowledge they need during primary school to be level with their peers at that time in their life. Lots of children manage to get by and illness cannot be helped but holidays can.

It's particularly true if your child isn't the top of the class and struggles to grasp new concepts. In that case its really unfair on the child.

It's just not and you must know there's more nuance than that. For one thing, as a parent who is a teacher I'm as qualified as her class teacher to teach my child and indeed I can teach her more in a day 1:1 than a teacher of a class of 30 can.
At just turned 4 before starting school, my daughter could do 90% of the Reception curriculum so her missing the odd day really did make no difference to her education. She knows from all the other work we do that education is massively important. As I said in my previous post, it's the day-to-day work (reading, phonics, maths, just talking to your child - which very main parents fail to take any decent interest in) that supports your child 's education, not what you do, or don't do, in one week of the year.