Students to be taken out of school for holidays

[Spinachandcheese1]

To clarify, I am mum of two young kids - not yet primary school age!

I am a bit puzzled on this hot topic on whether students should be allowed to be taken out of school for holidays mid-term...

Surely, holidays are less expensive mid-term, but how can a kid miss whatever is taught at school/miss homework/miss new topics that they will learn, just to go on holidays?

How will this kid be examined at at school test in this "lost" knowledge at a later day? For example, if they learn about the rivers of the UK or about decimals in maths or a historic event and then the kids will have to somehow know all these things that they would have learnt in this "missed week", how would that happen?

Please forgive if I am worried unnecessarily, as I said I don't have school aged kids to know what's happening but this is something that concerned me.

AIBU - Kids won't learn anything important in a week that will have an impact

AINBU - Kids will struggle to catch up academically on their return

Personally I find these threads so shocking and indicative of how little respect adults in Britain seem to have for education / school - what are you teaching your kids other than attending school isn't important.

Teachers already have enough to worry about and achievement in schools is already low enough, for an increasing number of kids to be randomly out and missing learning of certain topics.

Even if topics are revisited, whose time will be spent and at whose expense is it when the teacher has to spend time with the child who missed the explanation the first time round

No wonder we are falling behind to other developed nations when it comes to education!

As I said in my earlier post, I do not take my children out. But I acknowledge it is because we have the privilege of earning enough to take holidays in holiday time. We also work in professions where we do not have a scramble to take holiday in the school holidays so annual leave is not a logistical nightmare. I can completely understand why families who do not have this would take their children out in term time.

I will always be selfish and make sure my children get the best start and education possible. Not at the expense of others but I will ensure I use what I have available to me to give them all I can. I will happily pay more tax to fund education better for all in society and ensure teachers are paid fairly for what is a tough job. I will not sacrifice time with my family to prove a point about education when the government themselves bumble about and fail to put their money where their mouth is. Fostering an attendance culture and making sure Timmy's parents care for their child's education requires time and investment on their part. It should not be upto parents who do care to sacrifice their holidays and memories to ensure this happens

A week is going to make very little difference at pretty much any stage. Perhaps certain key moments at GCSE/ A level but even then unlikely t9 be a huge issue. There are absences for other reasons such as illness and students cope fine.

This post nails it for me.
But also look at the bigger picture - children will grow up thinking the rules don't apply to them.

So many people who know exactly what the curriculum content is. It’s incredibly frustrating when children have missed units of work for a holiday.
I wish that all parents had to pay towards their child’s education with a monthly bill direct from the school. Parents might take it seriously then and give value to schools.
If you want term time holidays then home school.

I don't blame parents for doing it in Primary at all, especially if their child is meeting targets/has a healthy attendance record etc.

If you choose towards the end of summer term then kids are usually doing pretty much bugger all academically (absolutely the case in DS's Primary).

If it's the only way families can afford a holiday then I think kids would get more out of it than a faffing-about week at school.

I wouldn't entertain the idea in Secondary, though.

No one panics when their child is off sick for a week with chicken pox say. My son was off years ago for a week or so with something so I said does he need to do anything to catch up and they said no so how are holidays any different.

Secondary school is different etc.

You can just teach them yourself surely? Four year old DN can tell the time to the nearest five minutes.

The simple answer is that most parents don't really care. They only care when their child is doing their gcses and doesn't know what they need to.

The real problem is the mismatch in attitudes. Those parents who care about their education would catch up their kids pretty easily at home with the extra support, unfortunately the parents the who care don't generally take their kids out. It's the parents who don't give a shit that do cause a week of the kids watching them drink cheap cocktails around the pool is more important. Hence why childhood outcomes are so predicable form a young age it all comes down to whether parents care.

I have 2 students in my class who will miss out on a whole GCSE as they sat one module and will be away for the next one. No chance to resit in year 11. Crazy.

I’m a massive advocate of education and planning on moving for best schools etc BUT I would still consider taking it during term time. I think travel can be hugely educational. But only if that’s the sort of travel you do. Ie exploring, learning, experiencing other places and cultures. I don’t think it’s ok for a cheap all inclusive

I’m going to stop watching this thread now as it’s just annoying me.
So many parents who understand the curriculum inside out. So many parents who take their child on holiday and they learn so much about the culture/language/history and anyway their child is a genius anyway.
Yes it’s annoying that holidays are more expensive in term time. I get that. But children need to be in school. You are contributing towards a negative attitude towards attendance. Your child will probably be fine. Others, who pick up on that attitude, won’t be.

Also people saying ‘oh it doesn’t matter in primary school anyway.’

1. I don’t agree
2. What about when 13yo dc is going through a tough time at secondary school and starts refusing because actually you kind of had already ingrained the message that school was optional? I teach several students with terrible attendance. They will underperform/not be entered for exam. Their social skills are undeveloped. Crucially, and most importantly, they’re not happy.

I think this is a silly post. There is absolutely no evidence at all that middle class kids taking holidays during term time has any effect on the attendance of other kids. My older child attends a multi cultural school and parents take their kids out for religious holidays. Yet it is one of the best schools in the country and the parents care about education.

seeing kids go on holiday isn’t responsible for vulnerable kids not attending school. There are far more complex issues at play.

What's the big deal about missing a few topics? If they're that fundamental (maths / languages) it will be obvious there's knowledge to catch up on and the parents can sort it out.
Nothing catastrophic will happen if a child misses a week of primary school.

In the nicest way possible, other random children aren't Arabella's parents' problem. Holding them responsible for other children's education is absurd. And either way your whole theory sounds very far-fetched.

Do people take their children out in secondary that much, I know one of DDs friends was off for a week in year 9.
I worked for a MAT where a term time holiday was an automatic fine.

I think a big part of the problem is school is utterly joyless now, especially primary. DDs primary was maths/English every morning. PE 2 afternoons a week and then everything else covered in a few afternoons - art, science,
history, geography, RE, music, computing etc they did nothing in any depth.

what they did do was spend weeks rehearsing ‘performances’ which I assume was to please OFSTED. They had a dance performance every year, DD still complains about them. It was all the girls who did dance outside at school at the front and everyone else shuffling about in the background. Totally pointless.

I can remember in primary doing projects like building a castle for weeks, there seems so little room for that now. You do have to make them want to come, not just because they have to.

Equally important- what are they learning instead? I take children out of school for a trip where they would learn for more than a week in school (eg language, a geographical feature, an important part of history ) in a heartbeat because that knowledge- paired with family time - is so important and ‘sticks’ far more. If they were struggling and needed some space - absolutely - I feel like it’s better for them to miss a week and come back 100% and ready to learn than to sit and flounder and take nothing in but be a bum on a seat for the sake of it.

Would I take them out to go sit a resort for a week ? that’s a bit more debatable for me ….

I don't know why this has become such a big deal. I had service schools and I had regular time out. In fact my school closed down in May of Year 9 and I didn't return to school until Year 10 and my exam results were excellent.
The only time I wouldn't consider to do this with my 2 is exam years. Having said that I will only take them out for a week max.
I don't think primary school is an issue at all. My eldest missed a big chunk of reception and Year 1 through covid (no online lessons) and she is doing well across the board. A lot of stuff is repetitive and if they are pretty on the ball then there is no problem in "catching up". I have taken her out twice so far, once a few weeks into reception and once at the very start of Year 4. You have to weigh it all up really and use a bit of common sense.

Nonsense. We care a lot about education and have 5 degrees between us. Our children are all very academic, bilingual and avid readers. We take them out to visit family in different countries(where they speak their second language and experience a different culture) and because sometimes they frankly do F all at school (days before Christmas, the week before summer holidays) and yes it saves us hundreds. We then spend this money on activities like days out in London, sports and music. Your are just judgmental and know nothing about people’s lives.

and we never had to do any “catch-up” not even when the kids were sick. Guess they don’t cover life changing stuff in the last 4 days before summer holidays or the days before Christmas break.

Yup. Our DC are being raised by two academics who happily take them out for a week in May in primary school - because academic salaries don't cover a week away in the summer.

I don't know that this tracks. Like I said, in Ireland it's very normal to take kids out for a holiday in primary school (not in secondary exam years), and educational attainment is higher there, education is valued and teaching viewed as a respected profession.

Parents support education (or otherwise) in so many ways, I don't think a week in the summer is a big deal. The other 51 weeks will determine the children's outcomes.

We are not academics. People have Phds and work in all sorts of industries. academics usually work term time too btw.

It’s not always a question of money either.
my point is we care deeply about education but to pretend every day at primary school is crucial for their future success and wellbeing is frankly nonsense. And not all teachers are brilliant and inspiring.

I know not all people with PhDs are academics. I was agreeing with you. And university semesters are much shorter than school terms, so there's usually scope to get away, we manage it every year.

Problem is the problem families/parents that don’t care about attendance be it a holiday or a fuck cnba day.

So all families are “punished” 7 days out of a whole school year are nothing. Covid showed us this, the last few days of terms being toy days and play days show us this. The fact my daughter can miss 6 days of school on a school ski trip show us this.

Its regular absence that is an issue not 7 days in a whole year.