To be really funking fed up of the shit train services in this country

[Medschoolmum]

I paid £170 for an advance ticket for a trip into London this morning. Journey of around 1.5 hours. Booked a seat with a table so that I can work on the train. Got up 45 mins earlier than usual to get to the station on time. Parked at the station for an exorbitant sum. Arrive to be told that train is delayed by 22 mins. Annoying, but OK, I have built in additional time. Not a massive issue.

After waiting for 10 mins, they announce that the train is cancelled. Not stopping at my station because they are running late. (This is not some tiny village station with one person on the platform BTW- it is a substantial sized station with loads of people waiting for that train.

We are informed that the next train will depart half an hour after the original scheduled train. This will mean that I'm a bit tight on time but should just about make it to my meeting on time. This is why you build in a buffer zone, right?

So now the next train is delayed as well, who knows when or if it will arrive. When I finally manage to get on the train, it's clearly going to be heaving. No chance I'll get a seat. And in the meantime, I'm still sitting here in a dingy waiting room drinking crap coffee.

The last time I took a train was around 10 days ago. That one was also cancelled for a different reason. I was delayed by around 40 mins.

I know I can claim back the ticket cost etc, but how on earth do they get away with charging such extortionate prices for such ridiculously unreliable services? I used to live overseas in a country where the trains were much cheaper, cleaner and ran like clockwork. Why are we so incapable of doing the same?

I'm not convinced that nationalising them is going to fix the problem either... the days of British Rail weren't exactly much better.

I am so fed up of this shit show.

They don't. The government pays. This is why the government's strategy of cutting maintenance and pissing off the staff (so that they aren't inclined to volunteer for overtime when there are shortages) is a false economy. Disruption costs far more.

Easier said than done though. Road transport often isn't readily available at short notice, especially outside of major cities.

What horror, I used to use trains all the time, local (to and from college for me)and national as a teen when it was still nationalised. It didn't break the bank so I could afford to visit my boyfriend in Uni at the other end of the country, I got a seat, and I was on time within just a few minutes to be picked up at the station.

When it was nationalised the rolling stock was ancient (corridor trains anyone!) and the catering was notoriously bad (jokes about British Rail sandwiches used to be a thing) but the service was more frequent, cheaper and in many cases faster than now, since when targets were introduced for punctuality the companies responded by building in extra journey time to give themselves more slack.
The improvements have been in accessibility and facilities like WiFi and phone charging, but the basics of moving people from A to B reliably and affordably are worse. And unfortunately the gains in accessibility are partly wiped out by the losses in punctuality since passenger assistance tends to evaporate when trains are cancelled and delayed.

I think that the big difference is that on the roads - even when stuck in absolute gridlock - people feel in control. On the railways you feel dependant upon someone else.

Trains are generally held to much higher standards than private cars. People complain about the cost of train travel, but when calculating the cost of driving only think about the fuel, not all of the other expenses. You know that car travel is likely to make you late, so you make allowances and leave early (I remember the twice-a-week evening crawl to cadets when I was a teenager)

When it was nationalised the rolling stock was ancient (corridor trains anyone!)
I'd love to have corridor trains back. Occasionally still see them in Europe.

and the catering was notoriously bad
Like with most aspects of BR, the myth lived on after the actual service had improved. They got Delia Smith in to sort out the catering and were running a decent operation by 1993.

I cannot believe there is any comparison between nationalised trains and now.

Its like pot luck now. Or the 7th circle of hell. They might turn up/ might not. Loads cancelled.

It was NOT like this with nationalised trains. They ran frequently and to a good timetable.

I wonder if it’s one of these areas where the difference between north and south has widened since then- maybe the deterioration has been greater in the north like it has in other aspects of life. With the population rise around London there are probably more trains even if they’re more crowded than ever, whereas the problem with Transpennine Express is that the service is a fraction of what it was.

Another endorsement for nationalised trains (BR).

Trains were bigger and it was far easier to find trains that went all the way rather than having to change. It was rare to see people standing. They were far cheaper, and you could just go to the window and get a ticket without being penalised. I liked the old compartments and the interesting people you would get chatting to, although some of the rolling stock could be tatty.

The big improvements have been made in the station buildings - a lot of the old Victorian brickwork has been cleaned up and the lighting improved. Previously old and dingy stations are now illuminated and the well-designed focus of a station complex.

My husband used to be a high speed train driver on southeastern. Since 2000 we were able to travel anywhere by train for free or 75% off with another operator. I was never bothered by the shit service funnily enough but as soon as the strike crap started my husband immediately applied to go over to the freight trains. This was in 2022. I really miss the free train travel and avoid going on trains at all now as I realise how expensive and rubbish they are

I know this is a zombie thread 😂 but I wanted to join in and say yes the trains are awful.

I work from home mainly but go into my office once a month. I’m so glad it’s not more! Earlier this week I travelled from one northern place to another northern place. It was meant to take 1 hour 30 minutes each way but instead it took well over 2.5 hours each way and on the journey there as well as the journey back, it involved me standing in the cold waiting for the next train for half an hour after a delay meant I missed my connection !

And the thing is the office is only 1 hour away by car. I feel that they only care slightly about getting people from the north down to london but the train services connecting northern towns and cities are abysmal and they’ve just totally gave up. I could’ve got to London Euston quicker with the time this took!

I just don’t understand how they can on one hand make car ownership so expensive and so hard to book a driving test, while they encourage people to use public transport but then in reality provide unreliable and expensive public transport.

After almost two decades of using public transport as an adult, mainly living in London and not feeling like I needed a car - I’m now very much planning to get my driving license and buy a car by end of this year.

It’s all very well telling people to go green and give up their cars but the infrastructure just isn’t there to support this in the Uk. I don’t know what the answer is but I’m sick of waiting for things to improve so I’d rather get a car. I’m fortunate right now that I don’t need to travel more than once a month to the office but that could change.

This 100%.

I posted on another thread about Avanti that the BR rolling stock could be in pretty bad nick. Broken windows and holes in the ceiling but there were lots more actual trains running. The Sunday service was fairly decent. People could go away for the weekend and actually get a late train back on Sunday afternoon/evening. Almost unthinkable now.

Lots more people commuted then as working from home was non existent for office workers. There were lots of trains until late. In a city you could go out for drinks after work and just roll up to the station to go home without needing to check train times and all the palaver that goes with it now around tickets.

This is why I've just bought a car. Quicker, cheaper and efficient. I'd prefer to travel by train but it just doesn't work properly. Think from a green perspective the govt should address public transport over making cars electric.

I have travelled a fair amount on trains in France and feel deeply ashamed and embarrassed when comparing them to British trains. It’s down to decades, if not generations of chronic underinvestment and shareholders being put first.

Yes and those shareholders include foreign rail travel companies so the ultimate kicker is that our shit trains effectively subsidise their brilliant trains. 🤬

I get the train from near Gatwick airport to St Pancras 3 days a week, I pay £28 per day for a return (including a discount as I still have a 26-30 rail card) and I can probably count on one hand how many times the train is actually on time, if it does arrive on time I am genuinely surprised. My husband does a similar journey 4 days a week and has £300 worth of delay repays in his account (bare in mind that usually with each delay repay you get about £3 if you’re lucky)

Me too. They’re just so expensive! We’re
going to Manchester next month and have decided to drive rather than use the train. Even using a rail card, it will be about 4 times the cost of charging the car 3 times (there and back).

I feel that they only care slightly about getting people from the north down to london
If you've any experience of Avanti you'd know that they were no good at that either.

I have travelled a fair amount on trains in France and feel deeply ashamed and embarrassed when comparing them to British trains. It’s down to decades, if not generations of chronic underinvestment and shareholders being put first.
@KimberleyClark the TGVs are good, but the TERs can be patchy. Some lines only get a morning and an afternoon train.

Where the French do better than us though, it's down to investment. You get what you pay for. From the 1970s the French started building the LGV network, starting with LGV Sud-Est. Stick that line to Lyon in a gravity model and compare with just the planned HS2 line from London to Leeds. The UK line has a far higher score - never mind London to Manchester which is even better. If we'd started buliding HS2 in 1976 our long-distance operation would be world class by now (we'd probably be extending it to Aberdeen). Yet the UK government is too incompetent to build modern infrastructure, so Sunak cancelled it, as he can just use his helicopter instead.

I rather like the work Anne Hidalgo has been doing in Paris too, shame that she's retiring.

Yeah the prices are just crazy, definitely a smart decision to drive if you can!

I’m only 25 minutes on the train from Manchester and 45 minute in the car but so often there’s some kind of mishap which means the train journey ends up taking around 50 minutes. So it’s easier for my partner who lives in Manchester to drive over as he can plan his arrival time better. The train is so hit and miss and you never know when you’ll get there. Plus it just ruins your mood to arrive at the station and have to wait 30+ minutes in the cold and rain because of a delay or cancellation.

“I feel that they only care slightly about getting people from the north down to london
If you've any experience of Avanti you'd know that they were no good at that either.”

Yeah true 😆 I don’t think they do a good job of getting us down to London either, hence my use of the word “slightly”!

It’s pretty poor either way but I’ve just had slightly worse experiences of travelling around the north though personally.

But yeah I have had some crazy journeys to London! My work also has an office there and once the train had such bad delays going there that I was two hours late for my work meeting - which thankfully my manager moved for me - and on the way back I ended up being dropped off in Stockport at midnight.

A. Stockport wasn’t my destination and B. the train was meant to drop me off (at my actual station) at 10pm 😵‍💫 I’m 30 minutes from Stockport by car so I ended up getting an Uber for £20. I was just exhausted by that point and the only option Avanti offered was a rail replacement bus that was going to take one hour and then I’d be walking to my flat from the station at 1am!

This, most of our rolling stock should have been replaced ten years ago.

The interesting patchy franchising does not make for a good service.

I can get from home to work in one hour five minutes in the morning if I catch the earliest train before delays build up. I have about 6 minutes for a connecting train which only comes every 35 minutes.
On the way home it frequently takes me 2-2.5 hours. Delays out of London Bridge are so bad I often miss the connection home. Which means I have to wait on a fairly deserted platform for 35 minutes in the dark and often the next one is delayed or cancelled. It doesn't feel safe.
It's making me consider leaving my job

To be fair though, I'd rate long-distance trains through Germany as poorly as Avanti. I've been through Germany eleven times in the last five years and have been severely disrupted on seven of them. Frankfurt Hbf at 3am is an experience! Never mind my train from Stuttgart to Budapest leaving 40 minutes earlier than the time on my ticket or getting to Köln to find that my booked train had bypassed the city.

Really I’m surprised! Never been to Germany but I’d have assumed the trains there were super punctual and reliable .

That’s good to know. I’m planning on flying to Berlin this year and might have traveled around on the train to see other places in or near Germany but maybe not.

Thats awful. I used to work in Blackfriars and lived about 50 minutes away using the train or thameslink.

The only way I’d avoid most of the London Bridge station chaos was leaving my house super early and then going home either very early or really late. That was only possible as I worked flexitime. If my day started off late or I had to work just slightly later so I’d be leaving around 5pm it would be a nightmare! I remember once being crammed into a train at 9am on my way to Blackfriars and two people kicking off at each other due to the lack of space. It was just miserable even if when it did run on time.

I used to also wonder how screwed a lot of parents especially single parents must be when they had these colossal delays, that would’ve prevented them from picking their kids up from school /childminders etc on time.

I feel like they just don’t care about peoples safety or wellbeing. Apart from the general inconvenience too many of us have been left in less than safe situations due to delays.

I feel it’s also a bit sexist or inconsiderate to bang on about how we should all use public transport when it’s often doesn’t feel that safe for women. Although tbf the one time I was (physically) assaulted on the train it was by a woman!

Make public transport more affordable, cleaner and reliable before you start telling us all to give up driving /our cars!