To be really funking fed up of the shit train services in this country

[Medschoolmum]

I paid £170 for an advance ticket for a trip into London this morning. Journey of around 1.5 hours. Booked a seat with a table so that I can work on the train. Got up 45 mins earlier than usual to get to the station on time. Parked at the station for an exorbitant sum. Arrive to be told that train is delayed by 22 mins. Annoying, but OK, I have built in additional time. Not a massive issue.

After waiting for 10 mins, they announce that the train is cancelled. Not stopping at my station because they are running late. (This is not some tiny village station with one person on the platform BTW- it is a substantial sized station with loads of people waiting for that train.

We are informed that the next train will depart half an hour after the original scheduled train. This will mean that I'm a bit tight on time but should just about make it to my meeting on time. This is why you build in a buffer zone, right?

So now the next train is delayed as well, who knows when or if it will arrive. When I finally manage to get on the train, it's clearly going to be heaving. No chance I'll get a seat. And in the meantime, I'm still sitting here in a dingy waiting room drinking crap coffee.

The last time I took a train was around 10 days ago. That one was also cancelled for a different reason. I was delayed by around 40 mins.

I know I can claim back the ticket cost etc, but how on earth do they get away with charging such extortionate prices for such ridiculously unreliable services? I used to live overseas in a country where the trains were much cheaper, cleaner and ran like clockwork. Why are we so incapable of doing the same?

I'm not convinced that nationalising them is going to fix the problem either... the days of British Rail weren't exactly much better.

I am so fed up of this shit show.

It's just bonkers. The times I've paid out a small fortune to travel by train and then had to spend 3 hours standing/sitting on the floor because the train is rammed, all seat reservations have been declared void. I can't think of anything else where I'd pay £150 for the privilege of being so uncomfortable for that long. And you can't even get a refund for those ones, because the train still ran on time. I just avoid it as much as possible now.

Only just seen this thread, has anyone compared the amount of money that other countries put into their railway systems? My understanding is that like health care the total cost of running a railway in UK is lower.
That is other countries are willing to pay more tax, the money is passed to the operator who provides more trains and better services.
Am I right?

Damn, I hadn’t read the small print! Apologies.

Its complicated. There is no one easy target to blame. British rail was pretty crap as well. Privately operated ToCs are easy to criticise, buts let’s not forget some of them have they successful Japanese and German rail companies behind them, so it can’t simply be an issue of management. Network rail - which is often to blame for railway delays and cancellations is a public body, so we can’t blame private companies on their issues. One area that does seem a scam is the Rolling stock leasing companies. Finally - Covid and its aftermath. It had a massive impact on resourcing, financing, Govt investment cuts etc…

yeah i know op. Its shit. The train is what we need to use for school. There are often delays, cancellations, and lets not get started on the strikes.
It wasnt so bad when DS1 started 6 years ago, but DS2 is in his 3rd year of it now and is sadly used to it.
Im also used to having to do emergency school runs which take about an hour and a quarter out of my day for the round trip, or two if its a strike, as well as the fuel I use, which isnt covered by the amount we get back from delay repay, if that even works. Its a good job my manager is understanding because it makes me late for work.

Better than lining the shareholders pockets

I think it's more complicated than that. There are a lot of variables. There has definitely been a move towards a greater part of the cost being met through ticket prices over the past twenty odd years. However the government still pays out £26 bn in subsidies. Spanish government for eg has increased subsidies in recent years to €20 billion (was previously €9 billion ie way less than the UK government has put in for a long time) but that has covered things like travel cards to go for free on routes that saw a downturn in numbers after covid. It already has a high speed network so it doesn't need to invest in that but as I understand it the costs for that weren't subsidised by government there, unlike in the UK.

They are so, SO shit and cost a fucking a fortune. Last time I caught one the journey was supposed to take 4.5 hours. It took 8 hours. I could have flown to the Caribbean in that time and it wouldn't have cost that much more.

Agree. Where I live the service is so bad i actually resent paying for it sometimes!

This is a very good summary from 'We own it:
19 January 2023
30 years ago today, on 19th January 1993 the British Coal and British Rail (Transfer Proposals) Act 1993 was passed, paving the way for the Railways Act later that year that would privatise our railway.
In 1993, Margaret Thatcher had already sold off many of our public assets - energy, water, buses - but she thought the railway was ‘a privatisation too far’ and the public agreed. However the Conservative manifesto in 1992 promised to privatise the railway and Prime Minister John Major went for it.
We were told that British Rail’s natural monopoly was the problem and promised cheaper fares, better services and less cost for the taxpayer. Privatisation has failed on every front. Here are the top 30 failures of rail privatisation since 1993.
1 As early as 1997 Railtrack (the private company in charge of rail infrastructure) was being criticised for lack of investment.
2 In 2002 Railtrack was replaced with publicly owned Network Rail after fatal crashes (the Hatfield rail crash and the Potters Bar crash in the early 2000s).
3 In 2003 private company Connex lost the South Eastern franchise due to its poor financial management. It was run in public hands until 2006.
4 In 2006, the first East Coast line failure - the government removed the franchise from private company Sea Containers after it filed for bankruptcy.
5 In 2009, the second East Coast failure - the line was nationalised after the private operation defaulted on payments and left ministers with a hole in their budget. It became the most efficient franchise in the UK in public hands.
6 Also in 2009, the first £1000 rail fare was revealed.
7 The McNulty report of 2011 found that railway costs in the UK are about 30% higher than elsewhere - we would argue that privatisation with its accountants, lawyers and consultants made the railway less efficient..
8 In 2018, the third East Coast line failure - Richard Branson’s Virgin and Stagecoach walked away from the line (which had been reprivatised) after failing to make the profits they were expecting. Publicly owned London North Eastern Railway (LNER) took over.
9 In 2020, Northern Trains was brought into public ownership after years of unacceptable delays and cancellations from private company Arriva.
10 In 2021 the Welsh Government took the Welsh railway into public hands when the private franchise collapsed in the pandemic.
11 Also in 2021, Southeastern rail franchise was brought into public ownership after the private company attempted to defraud the taxpayer of £25 million.
12 In 2022 the Scottish Government took over running of the ScotRail franchise following years of delays and cancellations by Abellio.
13 Every year, we waste £1 billion because of our privatised railway - that’s because of the cost of dividends going to shareholders and the inefficiency of privatisation.
14 The state has been indirectly subsidising and propping up private rail companies to make them look successful, through Network Rail’s artificially low track access charges.
15 The private rolling stock companies which own the trains make the biggest profits. During the pandemic their shareholders received nearly £1 billion.
16 Yet neither the rolling stock companies nor the Train Operating Companies have much incentive to invest in new trains - the average age of trains rose after privatisation until 2019 and is only now beginning to drop back down to pre-privatisation levels.
17 Rail fares are rising twice as fast as wages.
18 UK commuters spend up to 5 times as much of their salary on rail fares as other Europeans.
19 The ticketing system is wildly complicated. In 2018, it was found that there are 55 million different tickets!
20 Timetabling is also a problem in our privatised system. Experts Jonathan Tyler and Lynn Sloman say “the entire public transport timetabling process is dysfunctional, hopelessly inefficient…It’s like trying to form a coherent picture from random pieces of different jigsaw puzzles”.
21 Christian Wolmar points out that in other countries like France and Germany, government owns the railway but it is managed by professionals who are given the freedom they need to attract passengers. Whereas in the UK we have the worst of all worlds.
22 The private sector takes the profit, the public sector picks up the pieces when things go wrong. The bidding process used to mean private companies would game the system by over-estimating their returns - taking high profits in the early years then walking away before making the payments to government they’d promised.
23 When the Covid pandemic led to falling passenger numbers, the government stepped in to prop up the railway with funding. Since then, the private sector has been given management contracts so companies are paid a fixed fee and don’t take any risk. What’s the point?
24 Rail franchising is generally recognised to have failed - the system is too fragmented and inefficient. ‘Great British Railways’ was the government’s latest attempt to sort out the problem but they seem to have given up on it.
25 The government is now creating a second class service on our railway, making drastic cuts and planning to close nearly 1000 ticket offices. The unions are fighting back, the government is fighting the unions - and passengers are suffering with the ongoing strikes.
26 British Rail was recorded as being 
40% more efficientt

than eight comparable rail systems in Europe used as benchmarks in 1989. 
It was however underfunded. Since privatisation, 
the government is spending around three times moree

on the railway.
We need BOTH public ownership AND proper funding to have a railway fit for the future.
27 Meanwhile, railways in other countries are powering ahead, enabling people to leave cars and planes behind - the best railway in Europe is in Switzerland and it’s in public ownership.
28 Ironically, many of the privately run franchises that still remain in our railway are run by state owned companies from other countries.
29 67% of the UK public want our railway in public ownership
30 63% of Conservative voters want our railway in public ownership

God @InTheUpsideDownToday that's depressing as fuck.

I agree. The lines into Euston are awful now - we have started getting the coach as more reliable.

Simple answer. They don’t care. And our Gov doesn’t care enough about us to make them care. There. That’s why I think. It’s shit.

I know 😞
What a state!

Also, can you imagine how much all of these privatisation failures have cost the taxpayer?

If they had invested in the railway then we may have had a service that was fit for purpose.

Surely if you were 3.5 hours late you could get your money back?

Yes, I did get a full refund.
So actually maybe the trains in our country aren't expensive because half the time they're free.

Pay £££ up front and then a 50% chance of getting your money back! An interesting way to run a pricing system.

I use National Express coaches a lot and find them good and much cheaper than trains. I like the guaranteed seat and luggage being stored in a secure compartment too.

Couldn't disagree more - British Rail was brilliant compared to what we have now - absolutely brilliant.

Yeah it was. And although it was considered shit at the time at least there were trains. And they ran. And there were enough.

The alternatives aren't exactly cheap

Long distance trains are just a bit of fun that you use if you have the day spare and want to enjoy the experience, don’t rely on them to get anywhere important. Random strikes, cancellations, shutting King’s Cross due to crowding, too much to go wrong.

I use long distance trains regularly, they're a great way to travel

I agree but only if you are okay with often not getting somewhere on time or at all. Which is fine on a holiday. Not so good when you have to get to the High Court or something.