Insane neighbour

[bananahammok]

I live in a flat on the first floor. The area I live in is not very safe. It's well known for crime... I'm sure if you have an area in London in mind, you've probably guessed correctly.
In my previous flat someone once kicked my door in. I never found out who.
I got a ring doorbell.

In my current flat I have installed my camera on the wall right next to my door. It was originally on my door but by putting it on the side I can still see the stairs but gives my adjacent neighbour privacy. My neighbour also has one now in the same position.

We have another neighbour that lives above me and regularly shouts things at our cameras. She calls us intrusive.

One of the main reasons I will never take it down is because of how she's been harassing me. She does things like write nasty messages about me and slams them h door at 11pm when my kids are asleep. Or she sticks them in the corridor. Recently I caught her calling me an effing b for literally no reason. I hadn't spoken to her in ages and in the footage you see me going in to the house and as soon as I get in she starts calling me names.

The camera is never coming down cos of this scary behaviour. But do you think I'm also intrusive?

It is intrusive to put up cameras in a public hallway, yes.

I disagree with the previous poster.

I too live in a flat. We don't have a camera but our downstairs neighbour does. We walk past it on our way to our flat (only three on the top floor) and it doesn't bother us at all. We know that if someone came up to our floor and caused any trouble or stole a parcel from our doorstep we'd be able to ask our neighbour to look at her camera for us to see who it was.

The only people I've ever seen have a problem with peoples door cameras are people who behave like idiots about it and show themselves up.

Can't edit my comment because I'm on the app but I'd also argue it's not really a public hallway - these are peoples homes. The only people who should be in the hallways are the people who live there and their guests.

But it's not a private hallway and you haven't obtained permission to film your neighbours or their guests.

Yes it’s intrusive. It’s not a public place and neighbour obviously feels spied on. Not great that she’s also a nutter and understand why you feel the need for it. But maybe also invest in more security for your door - another lock / chain / whatever. How soon could you move? Not great for the old stress levels living amongst nutters.

Yes it’s intrusive.

If it makes you feel safer then keep it.

Not your fault your neighbour is a nut job but it is important to look after yourself.

Can you not position at top of door looking down so it captured only the space outside your door?

Your neighbour is right. It's also illegal. There was a count case recently and the person with the ring doorbell lost. It was in Oxfordshire. My neighbour has one in a similar situation and I hate it. Honestly hate it but we moving soon (the ring doorbell and the cat poo been the final straw) so I don't want to complain. Yabu.

No it’s fine. There are cctv cameras absolutely everywhere now. All the people saying it’s intrusive. Do they not realise that in every shop, walking/driving down city streets etc. there are cctv watching them.
I have cameras all round my house. I live in a quiet rural village but I like the security. There’s no crime here, but it’s nice to know if for example a cat goes missing or something you can look out for it. A few locals have found cats missing that way. Our home is large and detached so not affecting anyone’s privacy unless they come up our driveway, it’s normal nowadays. Keep your camera. Report your neighbour for harassment.

Of course it's intrusive. You are recording people as they come and go from their homes. Virtually all CCTV and ring type doorbells also record audio, so they most likely believe that your are also recording their conversations and are probably making a conscious decision to not discuss anything private in the vicinity of the cameras.

Recording people in a public area, which the stairs to an apartment building could reasonably considered to be, as guests, contractors and others would use the space, is just not appropriate.

So that makes it right?

I could justify assault, theft, sexual abuse or drug dealing using your logic.

It isn't fine that there is CCTV everywhere.

People with your attitude are the reason that privacy and autonomy is being stripped from society.

How can not legal be fine?

That was because the device also captured audio. IIRC, the guy also sent images from his camera to his neighbour and bragged he could see her. That then amounted to harrassment and "unlawful processing".

OP you are better off switching back to a Ring doorbell, ensuring there is a CCTV sticker, and turning OFF audio recording. Speak to your local police team if you're unsure.

No it isn't, the clue is in "public". It's not a private space.
It's no more intrusive than any other ring doorbell that films the street outside your house.

Sounds like a catch 22. She's harassing you because of the camera, but you don't want to take it down because she's harassing you. I don't like them personally, one of my neighbours has one and I can hear it going off every time I go past their house. Its small cul de sac type arrangement so I can't avoid it and it does feel a bit like I'm being watched by a nosey neighbour.

I don't see how it's illegal to just position the camera so you can see who's directly outside your door? If it is covering the stairs, then I guess it's showing others coming and going, even if they're nowhere near your flat, which could be considered intrusive. The neighbour sounds like no matter what you do they will be rude and abusive tbh. Can you speak to the landlord/ owner of the communal area in which you're filming?

It's against the lease in our building. I'd write to your building management for clarity if you are unsure.

You can change the settings so they only record when pressed. Maybe tell her it only records when someone rings the bell? I’d be quite annoyed to if a neighbour was recording all the comings and goings from my home too I can see why they are upset

You're not actually recording their home though. You're filming a public hallway. No different to people in houses recording the public walkway in their ring doorbell cameras.

Their behaviour is reinforcing that you need the security.

There’s a bit of a difference as the ones recording pavements are much less likely to pick up conversations.

The communal hallway is also not public it’s privately owned either by the free holder or shared ownership by the flats. Private developments offer have their own rules about what is and isn’t acceptable.

It's not illegal to record criminal and/or antisocial behaviour. It's not illegal to have a doorbell camera. It only becomes an issue if you are using it in a way that violates other people's privacy. You can't share video of your neighbour being abusive on Youtube, for example, you can't just record her for no reason. But capturing evidence of her being abusive and sending it to the police or keeping it for evidence in a future legal case is perfectly fine.

If you wanted to keep the peace but keep recording there are two other options I can think of.

Instead of using a doorbell camera, you could install a standard spyhole in your door and fix a camera to that. Either a normal spyhole with a camera added, or better a dedicated spyhole camera like this. (I'm not endorsing this particular model, just showing the type of thing I mean.) From the outside it looks like a normal door peephole, the sort of thing normal people have had for decades and no rational person could complain about.

Alternatively you can get cameras that are camoflauged as a screwhead. Fix a legitimate item to your door such as a door number, making sure it has at least three screw holes. Where one of them will go drill a hole through your door and feed this camera through. It's a bit of a hassle, more than the peephole method, but is even less obvious.

But the hallway isn't people's homes, it's private property and probably belongs to someone else.

Funnily enough... neighbour also has one but it's on her door which still would capture us all. Except we don't have a need to go on her floor. But she has neighbours above. So why is it intrusive for us but not her?