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Original poster

State Pension

293 replies

JollyPollysjolly · 25/04/2024 22:02

my Husband is sure that by the time we reach state pension age (me 45, him 49) that it will no longer exist - or maybe when we reach 100 ha! Anyone with any knowledge that can add to this idea so I can argue back?

OP posts:
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6
IvorTheEngineDriver · 26/04/2024 09:51

Having worked in pensions all my working life, this is how I see it.

When originally set up, the State pension was intended to be paid for approx 15 years BUT as life expectancy increased no government could be bothered to raise the State pension age.

This, plus the aging population, means that the country can frankly no longer afford it in its present form BUT no party has ever had the courage to tell the public that the State pension age - for men and women - should be 71 or even 72, if the pension is to be affordable to the country.

Remember there is no "State Pension Fund" as such. The taxes collected by HMRC this week are used straightaway to pay this week's State pensions.

Politically, it is impossible to actually abolish the State pension IMO, but sheer economic necessity means that sooner or later: (i) the amount will have to be cut back or frozen OR (ii) there will have to be a massive hike in State pension age OR (iii) both of the above.

Humphhhh · 26/04/2024 10:00

echt · 26/04/2024 09:46

I don't think many boomers understand how disastrous this last 12 years have been for younger generations

Used on what?

Did you mean 'based on what'?

If so you're right that's unfair. A lot of boomers do completely understand the challenge facing the current/future gens. Most generations have strived to leave a better standard of living for their children/grandchildrens generation but that's in decline for Gen X onwards. And lots of boomers really care. But far from all.

Flowersandforests · 26/04/2024 10:05

I worry about this too - but I think they would need to give everyone literally decades of notice so people could start (trying to!) save the shortfall.

So many of my friends aren’t paying into a private pension because they can’t afford to so I just don’t know what would happen to them in that scenario. Do they just have to keep working ? And how would that work if you had a manual job? Or can’t keep up with all the changing technology? It’s a scary thought

MidnightPatrol · 26/04/2024 10:08

Teentaxidriver · 26/04/2024 08:36

I think the discussions around assisted suicide are connected to our aging population. People are living too long and needing too much care. I would expect that by the time I am elderly (if that happens), I’ll be given a quota of insect per day and then expected to shuffle off at a government appointed time.

It’s an incredibly complicated debate isn’t it.

Modern medicine can keep people alive for a very long time - often not in good health, and for a lot of that period not in good enough health to work enough to sustain themselves.

But the side effect of these advances are that people might have as long retired as they did working. It’s not sustainable.

ohmydays37 · 26/04/2024 10:11

Babyroobs · 25/04/2024 22:20

Who knows what they will do but I work in benefits for older people and the amount that must be being paid out is eyewatering. Lots of people on these old SERPS pensions, some getting like £300+ a week, many many others with low state pensions being paid often large amounts of pension credit ( especially when also on a disability benefit and receiving extra premiums etc). The figures must be enormous and with people living longer I just don't see how it's affordable. I guess as more people have private pensions in the future, the amount of pension credit paid out will reduce. I think the spiraling costs of benefits for older people and care costs etc is going to be one of the major things affecting future generations. Today's state pensions and all the other benefits are paid by current taxpayers ( I'm aware some of those are pensioners) and there just isn't enough tax revenue coming in to cover it all unless something changes.
However they can't just stop paying state pension, there would be uproar. I guess they will just keep raising the state pension age so that people are forced to take private pensions early and live off that.

Edited

My mum gets £30 a month pension from my dad (he's died). This stops her from getting the higher rate SP even though she has full stamps. Is this right! She has now remarried 18 years ago.

Sorry to but in OP.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 26/04/2024 10:11

Humphhhh · 26/04/2024 09:43

You really need to understand a lot more about the reality for current working age parents.

Free childcare hours doesn't really mean free childcare. The government funded part is such a pittance childcare providers go bust or have to increase fees elsewhere to cover the shortfall. Fees per child are easily in excess of £1k per month.

Mortgage rates may recently have been lower but the proportional cost of houses to wages has massively inflated over the past 20-30 years. Adding in mortgage rates rises in becomes disastrous.

University education is now out of reach for those without the ability to take on huge debts. No more living grants for lower income families.

New barristers barely make minimum wage.

Junior doctors have seen huge wage deflation, and coupled with high debt many are moving abroad.

I don't think many boomers understand how disastrous this last 12 years have been for younger generations.

Show quote history

DFO.

Im a very late Boomer. Borderline Gen x. I have adult DC. I know very well how hard it is now. I’ve supported them through uni, helped towards house deposits, bailed them out so many times. Young people are shafted these days.

They key thing is apart from 14 years of my adult life, there’s been a Tory government. I didn’t vote them in. That’s your problem.

User2460177 · 26/04/2024 10:18

Oblahdeeoblahdoe · 26/04/2024 08:26

Final salary pensions aren't 'awarded' they're paid in to. I paid between 6 to 8% of my salary and extra into AVCs once I paid my kids through university.

To be fair employee contributions (such that you paid) are a tiny part of paying for final salary pensions. Many government schemes are not funded- there is no pot and taxpayers are paying for the benefits now

Humphhhh · 26/04/2024 10:19

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 26/04/2024 10:11

DFO.

Im a very late Boomer. Borderline Gen x. I have adult DC. I know very well how hard it is now. I’ve supported them through uni, helped towards house deposits, bailed them out so many times. Young people are shafted these days.

They key thing is apart from 14 years of my adult life, there’s been a Tory government. I didn’t vote them in. That’s your problem.

Show quote history

There's no need to tell me to fuck off.

I clarified that Not All Boomers in a later post.

That post was in response to a particular poster.

G123456789 · 26/04/2024 10:20

Another pensions one? Ok I will say it again. There is no state pension pot. Pensioners are paid via the contributions being made by working people.

So as age expectancy has increased from 64.5 in 1948 to 78 in 2023, the state pension age should have crept up sooner than it has. Although 48 would have allowed for a higher infant mortality rate and the effect of two wars.

There will be a state pension when you get there op. Why? Because removing the pension makes a political party unelectable possibly ever again.

The value will stay about the same in real terms due to the triple lock, which again, no politician wants to be the one to get shot of.

Volbeat · 26/04/2024 10:21

Aaron95 · 26/04/2024 07:51

It will exist in some form. It has to or else we will have a lot of elderly people with literally no income starving to death.

That still happens now

hairbearbunches · 26/04/2024 10:21

Anyone lucky enough to be on a gold plated final salary pension ought not to qualify for the state pension right now, let alone in the future. My mate's mother, a widow, is creaming £3000k a month from the husband's private pension. What the hell does an old lady in her late 80s need the state pension for when she's accessing that kind of money? We need to start means testing a lot more than we do.

BeaRF75 · 26/04/2024 10:22

Even now, the state pension is of use only as a top up amount. We all need to take out a proper private pension to cover our retirement.

Hateam · 26/04/2024 10:23

hairbearbunches · 26/04/2024 10:21

Anyone lucky enough to be on a gold plated final salary pension ought not to qualify for the state pension right now, let alone in the future. My mate's mother, a widow, is creaming £3000k a month from the husband's private pension. What the hell does an old lady in her late 80s need the state pension for when she's accessing that kind of money? We need to start means testing a lot more than we do.

If anybody has their state pension removed, they should get a full refund of all of their NI contributions then.

toomanyy · 26/04/2024 10:24

Hateam · 26/04/2024 10:23

If anybody has their state pension removed, they should get a full refund of all of their NI contributions then.

Edited
Show quote history

With interest.

TheTorturedPoetsDept · 26/04/2024 10:25

Has anyone mentioned AI yet?

Lots of these "cushy" office jobs for those of us who are late 50s will be long gone by the time those now in their 30s/40s reach 60.

LakieLady · 26/04/2024 10:27

SkyBloo · 25/04/2024 22:30

Im planning for an eventuality where its means tested away.

I'd expect how they will do it is steadily raise the income threshold for a pension credit type means tested amount is available to the lower third or so of pensioners, then simply stop the triple lock on the state pension and allow inflation to gradually render it worthless.

That would just bring more people below the threshold for pension credit, unless you're proposing reducing that too.

The basic state pension is only a few pounds over pension credit now.

DoraSpenlow · 26/04/2024 10:29

When my friends and I were in our 30s/40s we always used to say that there would not be a state pension when we reached that age. But here we all are, getting a pension (even if some of us have had to wait more than five years than expected).

Hateam · 26/04/2024 10:29

I don't care how rich anybody is. If they have paid 35 years' of NI they have purchased a full state pension. That is the deal.

If changes have to be made for those currently working, then the years of NI they have paid up to the change get them that proportion of the full state pension. Their working years after that will be on the new deal.

BloodyHellKenAgain · 26/04/2024 10:29

I can remember having the same discussion back in days of yore when I was 21. I'm 54 now and there is still very much a state pension.
Imagine what a vote loser it would be to remove it/make it means tested. I really can't see it happening.

Iwasafool · 26/04/2024 10:30

JollyPollysjolly · 25/04/2024 22:02

my Husband is sure that by the time we reach state pension age (me 45, him 49) that it will no longer exist - or maybe when we reach 100 ha! Anyone with any knowledge that can add to this idea so I can argue back?

I'm 70 and people were saying this 50 years ago. Didn't come true and I have my pension. Without a crystal ball it is guesswork really.

NoisySnail · 26/04/2024 10:31

Of course there will be a state pension. The Conservatives are currently encouraging people to pay extra if they have missing NI payments to boost their state pension. So people will rightly expect something back for it.

The vast majority of people with private pensions get an amount that tops up their state pension, but does not replace it.
And if they really did away with state pensions, we would end up with homeless 80 and 90 year olds queuing up for soup and sandwiches from salvation army vans. Even I don't think they will do that.

It is also worth noting that the current state pension was increased a few years ago. So new pensioners get more than people already retired.

Iwasafool · 26/04/2024 10:33

hairbearbunches · 26/04/2024 10:21

Anyone lucky enough to be on a gold plated final salary pension ought not to qualify for the state pension right now, let alone in the future. My mate's mother, a widow, is creaming £3000k a month from the husband's private pension. What the hell does an old lady in her late 80s need the state pension for when she's accessing that kind of money? We need to start means testing a lot more than we do.

If she needs care £3000 a month would be useful.

Scottishshortbread11877 · 26/04/2024 10:33

BabaBarrio · 25/04/2024 23:50

Well, if they make it so I can’t claim it, I will want a refund of all my voluntary NICs + compound interest at the treasury rate that I have paid from abroad.

NI is not a tax if you are making voluntary contributions.

Edited

Good luck with that!

NoisySnail · 26/04/2024 10:34

And if they tried to means test the state pension, loads of people would just stop paying into a private pension and cash in their private pension. I would cash in my private pension and retire early knowing when it ran out I could claim a state pension.
It would cost the government more as people on a means tested state pension would often be eligible for top up benefits as well.
And it would be an enormous vote loser. Any party that adopts this policy can kiss goodbye to being elected.

IClaudine · 26/04/2024 10:37

hairbearbunches · 26/04/2024 10:21

Anyone lucky enough to be on a gold plated final salary pension ought not to qualify for the state pension right now, let alone in the future. My mate's mother, a widow, is creaming £3000k a month from the husband's private pension. What the hell does an old lady in her late 80s need the state pension for when she's accessing that kind of money? We need to start means testing a lot more than we do.

If this is even true, the husband must have had an enormous pension pot (or been on a very high salary, depending on the type of pension) which presumably he worked hard for.

Means testing would make the SP very very expensive to administer. It's not something that could be introduced quickly either. It would need decades of notice.