Labour pledges to re-nationalise railways - Is it time for utilities too?

[Startingagainandagain]

I am glad to see that Starmer is finally announcing some more radical policies and this is a positive step as far as I am concerned.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/renationalise-railways-labour-election-starmer-b2534505.html

I would like to see water, gas and electricity to be brought back into public ownership too, considering the profiteering, lack of investment and the sewage scandals that privatisation gave use.

I am old enough to remember the times before privatisation and I think that a big part of the cost of living crisis comes from private companies trying to squeeze as much profit out of us.

Also with climate change I think we also need to bring natural resources into public ownership.

I would prefer them to start with utilities to be honest

Anyone who remembers British rail won't be over excited about nationalised rail

I don't think it's possible.

Train operating companies have to bid for contracts every few years. Labour would just have to wait until each contract came to an end and then just not undertake a new contract letting process, setting up its own body to run the trains instead.

Utilities aren't set up on a contract model. Nationalising utilities would involve buying up private companies from their owners at the going market price. It would cost billions.

Completely agree (minus the climate change bollocks)

Utilities and infrastructure should never be privately owned, especially not by foreign based companies - madness. All should be state owned so that prices are controlled, for energy, for transport fares, everything.

Please can they start with water? Gutted that we won't be swimming or rowing in our local river this summer as it stands. We really don't want to get sick.

Yes it would be brilliant if they did this to both the railways and the utility companies.

The problem is that not many people know how truly horrible the trains were!

It’ll never happen; the cost would be phenomenal!

How much would it cost?

Scotrail is already nationalised. It was renationalised in 2022.

I actually didn't have a problem with British Rail.

I remember taking long distance trains with them and randomly coming into the station 10-15 minutes early. As soon as that rail line was privatised the train just sat outside the station for 10-15 minutes instead. Then within 10 years trains started taking 20 minutes longer to arrive, and now they can take 30+ minutes longer.

Local services were rubbish, but not as rubbish as some of them now. As soon as the line was privatised to ensure their trains arrived at the final destination on time they missed stops in the middle. The only problem was they didn't bother telling passengers on the train and no amount of complaining to the then franchise holder did anything. Then they completely changed the timetable so you had to wait 50 minutes to make a connection.

It costs nothing.

When the contracts end the government takes them back under control.

The real problem is the cost of the rolling stock which is all hired regardless of whether each franchise is run by a private company or the government.

British Rail was terrible - because of systematic under investment to justify privatisation, bit like the NHS really.

It depended on where you live and what lines you took.

I took and take intercity trains, and train lines in wealthy parts of London and the SE.

The plan for the railways is to take back into public ownership when the franchises/contracts expire. This will mean that they don't need to buy them back.

With the utilities, they would have to buy them as the contracts are not the franchise model and therefore would be more costly.

Labour also need to consider the debts that these privatised companies have taken on. For example Thames Water owe £16 billion. Would they want to take this debt onto the public books?

Water for sure should be taken back - more so than the trains imo. Then gas and electric- again more so than the railways.

The government already has a "plan" for Thames Water.

What is the plan? Or have they not published it?

Don't the Chinese own Thames Water now?

They refuse to publish it and also refuse to tell all the opposition MPs who keep asking them what the "plan" is.

The Guardian keeps publishing stories about them.

I think re-nationalising the railways will put re-nationalising the utilities into the national discourse.

The first steps towards re-nationalisation of railways were taken in 2021 under Grant Shapps as transport secretary and Boris Johnson as Prime Minister in what was considered to be a right-wing Conservative government ... and yet they did something that directly contradicted the previous Thatcher / Major Tory administration. Public opinion changes over time and politicians react to that.

In 2018 the cost of nationalising the UK's energy, water, rail, and mail sectors was calculated at anywhere between £176 billion and £306 billion. AFAIK, no-one has redone this calculation more recently.

All Labour are proposing at the moment is nationalising the running of the trains, not the infrastructure (railway lines, signalling, stations and so on). Because that is organised on a contract basis, costs would have to cover setting up a body to run the trains and then leasing / buying, maintaining and repairing and then replacing the trains. Labour has not said how much they think this would cost.

The government already quietly takes franchises back.

https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/about-us/company/company-information

Is it not the case with utilities such as gas and electricity the government can set up non-profit companies to compete with the ones in existence?

British rail yes I remember it well, if you wanted to go somewhere you went down to the station bought a ticket and went there. Nowadays you have to plan well in advance in order to try and get a good ticket price🤬

And nurseries and care homes please

I disagree with utilities. We have had some of the cheapest energy in the UK for years before the COL crises. We've got rid of coal, and rely more on renewables. Utility companies are very competitive, and actually don't make massive profits.

Water on the other hand..... It never made sense, as there is no competition and our systems are old and creaking. The very nature of our mixed drains means we will need billions and billions, to mitigate an increased population and heavier rain events.

Rail vastly improved post British Rail which was frankly shit. We have suffered from a lack of modernisation, much if it resisted by the unions. Sad, but true.

I'm not sure we should compare anything from the early 1980s with modern day services. Technology and customer expectations have changed dramatically and much of the modernisation would probably have happened anyway without privatisation.