to think cutting benefits will increase crime

[everydaywonderful]

because people need money, you know, for food and rent and stuff. I'd be prepared to break the law before seeing my children without food, or homeless, wouldn't you?

Now you’re gibbering.

You assumed I was Labour supporter, which is why you wrote “that goes out to all the Tory bashers by the way” after asking making your “rhetorical” question statement.

You can’t make an incorrect assumption and then be right after the fact.

At no point did I say you were a labour supporter. You are making that up.

My statement was Labour would be the same.

You of you own accord wrote Starmers party are puppets of the Tory’s

So confirming my statement that nothing would change

I will no longer engage with someone that doesn’t know how the construction of an argument works.

I’m not interested in whatever premise you think you got right. You absolutely did assume I support Labour, that’s why you asked - and I quote - “Do you think the Labour Party will adopt different policies?
What exactly do you think they will do?”

I’m not interested in continuing a discussion with someone who’d rather lie than own up to being wrong either. Far too tory for my liking.

Not answering the question though….cause you know Labour will implement the exact same policies!!!

You can’t argue that I said you’re a Labour supporter because I never once said that. You could be Green, SD, LD. I have not idea. I do know that you can’t follow an argument though …so whether that makes you a labour supporter….

“I will no longer engage with someone that doesn’t know how the construction of an argument works.”

And yet here you are again, because you did assume I was a Labour supporter and you’re a mendacious apologist for tory corruption and incompetence.

How much evidence of maladministration does even the most stupid tory voter need to stop defending them btw?

Am I? That’s interesting that you believe that I have ever voted Tory in any election. But then again, you do seem to adopt magical thinking.

Wow, I see what you think you did there.

I’m done with you.

Or you could, you know…get a job…

There are lots of people who genuinely need benefits, but sadly there are also a vast group of people who just can’t be bothered.

However, benefits were not created for a lifestyle choice, they were created as a safety net between work.

sure, but lots of people cant. And in lots of places there are no jobs available.

Benefits aren't a lifestyle choice. It's mad that people think you can just stay on benefits with no consequences because you "can't be bothered" to work. I was made redundant last year and had to claim and it really is not as simple as all that!

Until employers are required to create entry level jobs with fixed hours and pay, you can stop blaming people who are unable to find work.

Hardly or there would be no graffiti, no overgrown cycle tracks, no litter or overflowing bins. Internships and apprenticeships are also allowed to exist where someone gets paid next to nothing or nothing.
i was also just suggesting they do the minimum wage amount so 40£ benefits gets them 3-4 hours work.
I didn’t mean to offend but see it’s not that easy but I was thinking there are in fact benefits on both sides. The person doing the work would get an employee reference, evidence of grafting/punctuality/teamwork all those kinds of skills.
I was also thinking this would be more of the ones who purposefully avoid getting a job not genuine claimants but I guess this may also get confused.

The fact that unpaid internships are allowed to exist is not an argument for workfare, it is a scandal that needs to be abolished.

Workfare was tried. It failed. It was unethical then and it would be unethical now. Shame on you for suggesting it.

Yeah they should but people do them anyway because of the benefits that come with internships (even though we know it’s often the ONLY way to get into certain jobs) . Policies can’t go from 0-60. Nothing gets done immediately it gets done over time. It’s clearly there’s certainly no one size fits all model as the government is suggesting.
Shame on you for resorting to nastiness rather than an explanation. No one would be working for free in this case so I’m genuinely trying to understand and coming up with a solution. The government are used to people saying shame on them and they don’t care so it’s going to have very little effect on over turning any future policies on the matter.
I claimed dole once in my life because of being on a 0 hours contract. I would have gladly taken on some genuine help/advice something to keep me busy at this point that could benefit me in my future career. Instead I got out of uni and lacked confidence and struggled to find direction.
Similarly, I know people who have had to be off work so long that when they are ready to come back they are terrified as they think the world has moved on without them and they wouldn’t be able to keep up. A work placement of sorts would help build confidence. Again I’m not saying a one size fits all but an overhaul of the system and more options to help solve genuine problems.

⬆️This.

@Latenightanxiety I repeat: Workfare was tried. It did not work. The people on it were exploited. If you want work doing, you don't make people do it for benefits. You give them a proper job, with proper hours and paid sick leave and holiday. Anything else is unacceptable and again: shame on you for thinking it can be acceptable in any circumstances.

0 hours contracts should be very severely restricted. I can think of only one business that is doing it right, and that is the one where my DS works. It's formally 0 hours, but he has never not been able to get the hours he wants. This company offers genuine total flexibility for a group of workers who want to work that way. That is incredibly rare.

I agree with this, ime most people do not want zero hours contracts but are forced to take them as so many employers rely on them. My DC works for a big organisation so I wrongly assumed that they would be able to provide the full time hours that were required. In reality what happens is that sometimes there will be 5 days work and other weeks there will be 2 or 3 days work.

This contemptible government will be gone long before they have any chance to enact this ridiculous policy.

Yet this thread has reminded me how many normal people would cheer such an attempt on.

Shame on me yes you’ve said. I’m probably going to hell because people trying to come
up with solutions and trying to have discussions about options rather than just saying no have a special place in hell. We all know the system sucks and genuine people are penalised. Good job neither of us work anywhere that has any effect on any of this. Me because I say awful things that become gospel. You because you are unwilling to have adult discussions.

I take back my suggestion so I can sleep easier tonight.

Workfare has been tried as a solution and has failed. I don't know why you still think it's a solution.

Plenty of solutions have been suggested on this thread: improving mental health services, bringing back Sure Start, investing and reforming education, giving employers incentives like tax breaks to offer flexible work, jobsharing and supported employment. Those are things that will work. Suggesting going back to a failed idea involving something very close to slavery is not, and I really wonder abour the kind of person who still things it could be a good idea.

Workfare and anything similar is a step backwards.
If jobs need doing, then employ people and give them workers rights and benefits, don’t make them “work it off” for their benefits.
It’s not fair, it’s not morally right and it appeals to a small section of the public who love this kind of stuff.

The best start is to stop dehumanising huge swathes of benefit claimants, currently it’s the sick and disabled, previously it’s been single mums, but generally it’s all three and the belief is that if life is just hard enough then the disabled will just give in and a miracle will happen and they will be cured and if we could just get those with mental health issues doing a job then they too will be cured, even quicker if someone file on the DWP calls them in for a bit of talking therapy.

I don’t know the answer, but more WFH chances, a better NHS, treatments in a timely manner and a decent mental health support might be a good start.

The AET is about to go up again. Huge amounts of (often women) who are working and doing their best will now be forced into looking for more work. These are often women like me who aren’t going to miraculously find a 50k a year job, and aren’t not taking one just for the UC we get. There will now be more people doing 2/3/4 jobs as more and more pressure is put on them. That will be the reality for all the PIP claimants who they deem fit for work, they will be expected to do the same.

Whatever anyone is doing it isn’t enough for the Tories and their followers.

Are you joking?

I can barely get out of bed due to my mental health and now you want me to go clean graffiti like I'm doing community service?

That's not going to make me feel great is it or do my mental health any good.

All it is going to do is humiliate me and remind me what crap my life is.

With comments like yours it reminds me of how many idiots live in this godforsaken country.

If you had a disability you wouldn't have made this ridiculous suggestion.

Shame on you.

Late night anxiety

I'm actually really really annoyed by your stupid, ridiculous, inconsiderate, ludicrous suggestion.

As you absolutely should be. It just goes to show there are quite a few truly heartless people living in this country. I am so sorry you had to be confronted with that, please believe we are not all like that.

Go and clean graffiti???

What in-between my panic attack, insomnia and side effects of my tablets such as shaking, nausea and extreme dry mouth. Also don't forget lethargy and brain fog.

I have anxiety leaving my bedroom but you want me to put a vest on and join strangers outside to go litter picking????

Why don't you do that then and leave us be.