To Think Rishi is Delusional

[Sunshineguy]

The Prime Minister wants people to shrug off increased ill health. Is he delusional? Fatigue is categorized as a mental health issue for long term disability benefits. Fatigue is also the most common symptom of Long Covid. Is Rishi right to say we're a nation of shirkers? Or is he ignoring the presence of a new virus that is disabling people? Has your health improved or worsened since Covid arrived?

I do not know the ins and outs concerning our productivity vs other similar countries in Europe right now. What I do know is that the tax system disincentivises people from working more, both at the lowest level when receiving top up benefits and at the highest level. I also know that housing issues stop people from moving and seeking the best paid employment opportunity.

In addition, the NHS is the biggest employer in all of Europe and has generous sickness benefits not just towards clinical staff. There is a catch 22 there - if lots of them are off sick, we are all paying for it and we all become iller. I am not sure what the reality is there as it is conceivable that many there have long Covid/stress related illnesses but also that some are taking the mick.

I think we have fought very hard for employment rights. Those in government jobs including the prime minister have great benefits and pensions many others can only dream off. It does not sit well with me that they command the rest of the population who have less rights and benefits.

The most you can get from PIP is around £170 a week, about £100 daily and about £75 mobility, so they weren’t getting significantly more than £400.

So they didn’t need the PIP to buy the property, but they needed the PIP to pay towards the deposit…

@Crapuscular

'The WFH culture is also not helping. '

You are choosing to ignore the fact that being able to WFH means that many people with disabilities and long term health conditions can continue to work.

I am one of them.

The realisation that many jobs can be done remotely and that it gives staff better quality of life is a positive change.

It is not going anywhere now that people have realised they don't need waste time and money in long commute to try to work in noisy, open plan offices when they can do a better job at home.

Recent surveys show that workers prize flexibility when looking for job even above salaries so employers need to offer that if they want to recruit the best people and fill their vacancies.

It is disingenuous to claim that WFH is a problem rather than a great, welcome change that actually can keep more people in work.

It also supports diversity: it gives many carers, single parents, older people and people like me the opportunity to work.

It is only a problem in the minds of Tories who own offices spaces and don't want to lose rent or those who can't sell their overpriced coffees and sandwiches to as many commuters...

There are alot of people with serious genuine MH problems but there are also alot who take the mick and abuse the system. The UK is soft. Other European countries have similar rules where after a certain amount of time benefits stop. They will offer retraining or courses but not benefits continuously. The more benefits people claim, the less money there is for other things. Plus people are not paying towards NI or taxes but moaning about the NHS. There is not a bottomless pit of money in this country. There needs to be a compromise.

If you have listened to or read the actual speech, beyond just a few snapshots taken out by newsagents, then you realise that what Rishi is proposing is not unreasonable. No one is talking about taking support away from people without anything else in place.

Rishi is talking about putting support in place for people to assess what work they can do and to shoft the focus away from what people cannot do. He is also pointing out, quite rightly (I work with young people and see this trend in over-diagnosing of normal feelings into clinical mental health illnesses - it's a self-fulfilling prophesy in many cases) that this is mainly about young people who are increasingly going from education into unemployment due to mental ill health.

Yes, he is also talking about a crackdown on benefit fraud, but that is not the main topic of his speech, just what the media latched onto.

Like I said, the man is trying to run before he can walk. We do not currently have the infrastructure in place as too many people struggle to get the mental health support they need, especially early on when early intervention could work preventatively rather than reactively.

We need a culture shift, though, and I have to agree with him on that. Because saying "they cannot do" IS infantilising when not coupled with "but they could do... instead". I know a fair few people caught up in the benefits system for a long time, who are convinced they cannot work because reasons when in reality, some are physically not fit (but could work from home), some struggle mentally (but could do routine factory or farming work) and some are plain anxious and just need help to push past their initial fears.

It's the support structure, though, that needs sorting first.

Around £800 a month is significantly more than £400 a month. Using Pip for a deposit is using Pip to buy a house 🤷‍♀️. Your last sentence doesn’t make sense to me.

dont you think it’s wrong that some people on benefits of one sort can potentially have so much spare cash and others can’t afford to eat. I’m only talking about a better distribution

You’re the one who said they didn’t need PIP to buy the property, in the same post you then said they needed to save the PIP to buy the property. Thats why I posted that as you hugely contradicted yourself.

It isn’t around £800 a month, it would be over £100 less than that.

There are such a wide range of jobs available you need to be in a pretty extreme position to contribute nothing economically to the country. There was recently a poster who said they couldn't work because they were in a wheel chair - pretty offensive to the majority of wheel chair users who do work, ballet dancer might be out of the question but there are so many options. Too often I think people mistake being able to do their dream job with being able to work.

This. It’s coming directly from the International Monetary Fund that this needs sorting. The thing is, one party has repeated it out loud and the other is mumbling about it. Like it or not - it’s not sustainable and it’s coming from the IMF.

‘He doesn’t care’ nailed it.

He also wants everyone to have to pay for private health care so his Tory supporters can make money out of that.

Ah you edited after I posted, no disabled people shouldn’t be punished because the government chooses for other benefits to be low.

@Myopicglass seriously, you think between me, an intelligent and capable woman, and half a dozen consultant doctors no on would have thought to check that possibility out? Your armchair diagnosis on such scant information isn’t helpful in the least.

dh has had chronic fatigue since way before covid. Our experience is that the NHS is shit at dealing with it & identifying the primary cause and would prefer just to wave you away with an anti-depressant or CBT. And when the CBT does not help then it is your fault for not engaging with the process. I just wish that Sunak would realise that one day it might happen to him & that being fit and able to work now does not mean you will be fit and able to work next week.

Yeah I believe they have suggested just cutting benefits and tax on earnings. I don’t think people understand, right now it’s tories, soon it will be Labour but the problem will still exist. The IMF who is generally critical of slashing state spending is now suggesting that benefits need to be cut, thats quite stark and frankly concerning.

I really think you’re getting caught up in semantics. Between their 65k a year salary and pip)which is actually £765 a month not £700) they had enough spare money a month to put a deposit down. Not buy an entire house. They then had monthly rental income as well. All money in the same pot.

but it’s fairly irrelevant. The main point which you’re not answering is don’t you think it’s perhaps not fair that someone on benefits has so much disposable income and someone else can’t eat?

im sure there could be an argument that we should provide both. Non means tested pip and better levels of other benefits but we all know that won’t happen

I edited immediately as I pressed return so soon. 😁. Sorry if we crossed posts. And please ignore the last part of my last post where I said you hadn’t answered this point

I have already answered that. And I’m not getting caught up, you specifically brought it up and stated that they needed PIP to buy the property. They’re not on benefits as such, they receive a small allowance to counteract living with a disability/poor health.

The highest PIP award is £737.20, not £765.

But I don’t think means testing benefits is punishment. People either need financial help or they don’t. If I lost my job I wouldn’t get any benefits (for a long time) as I have savings I’d be expected to use. So means tested. Why are some means tested and others aren’t to the detriment of the poorest. ?

Haha I replied as you were typing this!

🤣

Potentially without the pip they wouldn’t have had enough to save up for a deposit. They told me they were saving their pip for a house deposit

I mean he's not going to win but if he did the contracts would be lucrative to batter people back into work. Cui bono and all that

To everyone who is unsure why our culture has changed so much: we're basically mini America now. Many of our big businesses have been bought by American ones and our working rights and laws are slowly conforming with American ones. Everyone will be expected to work every hour under the sun or otherwise just simply die. But unlike America, we don't have world.leading healthcare, education or our own business, so we're more like an in between America/ Eastern Europe. As we have shit standard quality of most things, everyone here is miserable and/ or an alcoholic. It's basically the worst of both worlds, enjoy!

No thankfully he won’t win. It’s all just bollocks chasing votes. Expect similar over the next few months

Covid has destroyed my life for 3 and a half years.

Im housebound, mainly bedbound.

I don't hate you but I do think your ignorant and naive to the reality of mental health conditions.

Yes it will push some people "out of their safe spaces comfort zone and face up to having to work."

BUT it will also push a significant portion of those people into crisis (or worse) because they haven't been given the treatment they need to be able to overcome their mental health conditions and enter the workplace and the natural challenges of that environment.

Which just makes the issues 10x worse because at best you will have more people off work for longer. And at worst, our suicide rates will skyrocket because Rishi is stripping GPs of the ability to give sick notes because he doesn't want them to help their patients take time to recover. because he feels they are too busy to do the admin.

Surely long term it would be more effective to provide functioning mental health services, with reasonable waiting times, so people can access the therapies they need to fix the root issue of their problems? Because even though that takes time, it means that those people can work without the risk of falling into crisis and spiralling into the long-term consequences of that a few months after entering the work place.

The government need to focus on giving people with mental health conditions the support to get into the work place long term. Stripping their support and forcing them into the workplace without it is going to end in disaster. And in 30 years time this will become the next scandal the govt are apologising for, while everyone hangs their head in shame and says we shouldn't ever let this happen again.