To Think Rishi is Delusional

[Sunshineguy]

The Prime Minister wants people to shrug off increased ill health. Is he delusional? Fatigue is categorized as a mental health issue for long term disability benefits. Fatigue is also the most common symptom of Long Covid. Is Rishi right to say we're a nation of shirkers? Or is he ignoring the presence of a new virus that is disabling people? Has your health improved or worsened since Covid arrived?

It’ll only get worse with the increased pension age. I can’t see how I can teach at 68 and if I choose to move careers, who will hire me?

He is an odious man.

My SIL jumped in that bandwagon too. She was the first person in the UK to get Covid (she didn’t have it) and has had it about 5 times. She self isolated for about a year on full pay due to asthma (which she doesn’t have), has had long Covid about 3 times (never stopped her going out and about and having fun) and when she had to go back to work she kept saying she’d been around someone with Covid so had to isolate many times.
Even her adult daughter says she’s surprised the NHS hasn’t got rid of her. She’s hardly at work with one ailment or another. Always on full pay

Perfectly put

Just because YOU don't know anyone... doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I didn't for a bit. Until I started a new job and saw someone I work with after lockdown to this day still has long covid. It's such a stupid things to say. Do you know someone who has 4 finger on one hand and 3 on another. Just because don't know someone doesn't mean it doesn't exist!!!! 😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫

The reality is, if as you say there are people who have been existing in their "comfort-zone" for a long time (1-2 years +) it'll be a heckuva lot more than a magic wand that's needed to somehow encourage them back into the workplace.

There's a skills shortage as it is, there's still the phenomenon of people in the workplace applying for 10, 20, 30 jobs and getting nowhere, so how the hell are people whose skills are 2 years or more out of date going to magically get a job?

I know what it takes to secure even the most basic admin job - someone from "the comfort zone" will be the last candidate to be selected!

(and I don't hate you, by the way, just developing on the points you've made!)

It’s funny isn’t it. I work with a colleague who says she has some undiagnosed/hidden illness which makes her exhausted and gives her pain. Every single year she has at least one block of several months off. The drs can’t find anything wrong with her. However she tells her GP she’s in pain and exhausted and can’t manage work and he signs her off. We have a very good sickness package at work so lucky for her she’s on full pay.

Now if I was to start a thread accusing her of being a workshy malingerer I would (quite rightly) be told I was wrong and that I have no idea what she’s going through, etc. I’d be given lots 9f examples and stories of hidden illness and probably be accused of being totally ableist.

however when there’s a more general thread on the issue and benefits are being discussed a lot of people are very much on the side of the govt and talk about work shy shirkers. 🤷‍♀️

and I think this is the issue the govt will have. It’s all very well having this utopian plan to get everyone working but when it comes down to individuals sitting there saying they can’t function it will be difficult to implement. Especially by non medical people. And Sunak knows this, he’s coming up with headline grabbing, vote winner, popular policies in a desperate attempt to keep the Tories in power. Knowing a load of Tory voters will love this. But deep down he knows it’s horseshit and if by some miracle they get voted in I would put money on this not happening.

What he failed to mention was the amout of people claiming pip payments may have hugely increased but how many of those claims are a. Staying in this country. b, claimed by immigrants c, claimed due to covid,
Iv always said there's a huge difference between someone feeling depressed and someone suffering with depression And unless you've had it or no someone who has you can't possible know just how crippling it can be. Why does rishi think he knows better than the medical experts. And forcing people back to work who aren't able is going to impact on the nhs already tucked health system. It just shows how little he knows by saying get people into talking therapies. Does he have any idea how difficult it is and what the waiting lists are like. Who's going to provide the therapy probably train the people who are signed off sick. Absolutely disgusting coming from rishi who's never been anywhere near skint.

@Dockli that’s not a bad idea. He could give half the unemployed people training to do talking therapies and get the other half being the non medical assessors. Win, win, everyone has a job and he has enough staff to implement the policy 😆🙈

😂 Well said!

Absolutely his ignorance is shocking.

If you are on PIP for mental illness you will need specialised therapy not a low trained worker in mindfulness and therapy lite. Kids not getting access to the specialised therapy they need is why so many move on to adult services. It doesn’t go away.

Also what he staggeringly doesn’t realise is you often feel worse for a while if undergoing targeted therapy for say ptsd or an ED. Some therapies like psychodynamic require 2 or 3 sessions a week and it’s exhausting in between. Often patients will have psychiatry appointments too. What jobs are going to facilitate that?

I’m sure all those currently on 2 year waiting lists will ask why they are waiting so long if therapy is going to be produced immediately out of a hat in vast numbers with this scheme. If it’s so easy why can’t they have the treatment they so desperately need now? Most absolutely want their lives back on track and to be in the workplace. It’s the lack of specialised treatment and reasonable adjustments in the workplace that are stopping them.

Pip isn't exactly easy to get people die waiting for it and it's scandalous when you record yourself telling them what medication your on and your paperwork comes through saying your not on any pip payments are being used to prop up the NHS everyone I know who is on pip are paying for private health healthcare and mobility aids that the NHS should be paying for but can't/wont

We as a family have suffered terribly due to Covid and continue to do so. I have 2dc, dd is 13 and ds is 21. Both are autistic, extremely bright and intelligent and are also both nervous wrecks who suffer with severe anxiety and OCD, made much worse by Covid.

Ds was doing his A levels when Covid hit. Lockdown was a blessing to him as he was absolutely petrified of going out. The obsession with germs and cleaning ramped up and he hardly left the house; he then developed Covid in the August and was really ill, he’s never been the same since and despite delaying going to university for a year, he still couldn’t cope when he did go and dropped out after 6 months due to a combination of illness and not coping and his MH is shocking. He had such ambition, is a shell of his former self and daily life seems like torture for him. He sniffs everything I give him, inspects the house for germs and insists on me washing my hands so much before going near him that my hands are destroyed. He’s living off £250 approx a month UC and cannot see a way out. MH services are dire in our area like most and he has little enjoyment in life and it absolutely breaks my heart.

Then i have my dd. She also suffered with Covid and has chronic asthma and whilst she doesn’t seem as bad as ds she has never been the same since and developed agoraphobia and hasn’t left the house since October last year which means I’ve been forced into home educating whilst living with a life limiting illness, several MH conditions and ADHD ( diagnosed on the NHS ) and life is shit.

Every day I worry about what to feed the kids ( dd has ARFID ) and we can’t afford to live. This is not what we’re used to and our living standards have dropped considerably. I had to give up working as I was in so much pain and don’t sleep much and all i do all day every day is worry. If it wasn’t for dd and ds then I wouldn’t be here, that makes me so sad to type that but it’s true. I just can’t see a way out of this mess. Rishi et al can fuck right off.

i sadly predict an increase in suicides and despair. For every “work shy scrounger” there is a
genuine decent person trying to survive who would love to be well enough for work again.

apologies for essay, that was therapeutic!

@WingSluts
You are young but have you considered perimenopause? I had the same symptoms and HRT solved it very quickly.
You may need to find a way to get it privately. Or can it be purchased over the counter abroad?

Here we have the issue! £3k a month is an awful lot of money and for lots of people more than they could ever earn working FT in a difficult and hard jobs. I am not saying you are undeserving but everyone posting on this thread pretending that there won't be a proportion of the population who will be envious of the amount of money you get each month without working is just BS. The incentive to exaggerate illnesses and swing the lead is there.

I've used this analogy before but Disney are having to tighten the rules around their Disability Access System due to the system being abused and too many people trying to use it. The system is designed in a way that disabled guests get a clear advantages over non DAS guests as they get a return time instead of having to queue for 90+ minutes and can even pre-book some rides. These privileges may well be needed for some disabled guests to be able to access the attractions but it is clear that lots of people who don't need the service are using it because they want the better access. If people are prepared to lie and exaggerate to cut a few queues in a theme park, you can be sure they would do the same to claim over £30k a year and avoid having to work a job that most people wouldn't want to do. It is human and nature and the fact so many on threads like this on MN act as if this isn't happening is either delusional or deliberately misleading.

Pip also isn’t means tested which maybe needs looking at. I get that the purpose of it is to put people on a level playing field but maybe there needs to be a limit? I know a single person who earns 65k who says they have a lifetime PIP award. The only thing health related they spend it on is a weekly cleaner because they can’t clean. 🤷‍♀️. They have a very nice lifestyle including having purchased a rental property and getting into the landlord game. Without the PIP payments maybe they couldn’t have afforded that rental property. That doesn’t seem right?

especially when there are other people on benefits really struggling to make ends meet. There seems to be a big disparity and maybe there’s a way of distributing benefit payments more fairly?

I've mentioned it before somewhere, but what we are seeing currently is culturally just so different to other parts of the world. I take Japan as my example. Their work culture is extreme in many respects, but so much of it is driven by an attitude of wanting to contribute to the society people live in.

It means that opportunities are sought for people with all sorts of disabilities to contribute and work. The robot cafes are an example of allowing people with extreme physical disabilities still see a purpose in their lives, and to interact with people in a way they normally wouldn't.

When I mentioned this before, I got shot down, saying that we shouldn't force disabled people to do any work they theoretically could, but I still see it from a different perspective. I wouldn't want to live my life out doing nothing much if I had an accident tomorrow which almost fully paralysed me.

And similar can be said for people with mental disabilities or ill mental health. One company I worked with (a funeral one) employed a person with Downs syndrome as a bearer. The person worked part-time and they weren't mentally able to hold much of a conversation beyond some basics, but they did a fantastic job at the physical aspects of funeral work.

We know working (albeit in the right kind of job) has a positive effect on mental health, if only because it allows for interaction with other people.

What Rishi is doing is trying to run before he can walk. As another poster pointed out, in many ways we don't have the infrastructure to support many people into work and we'd need heavy investment before any of this could become a normal expectation for people to look for work they can do.

But I do agree that we, as a society, are too quick to label people as unable to do anything. In a way, it infantilises and victimises people who might otherwise benefit.

Who is saying PIP equals never able to do anything? Many young people I know on it are desperately trying to get their education and life back on track and have goals to work.

When we lived in the UK my husband earned more than that and received PIP, low level daily, low level mobility, PIP levels are very low, his was £100 a week and didn’t come close to covering the additional costs he had due to his disability. PIP doesn’t just provide a small amount of financial support, it can mean a carer being able to claim carers allowance/NI credits, a blue badge if needed, carer tickets for travel, events etc.

An indefinite award lasts ten years, and no matter the award the review process starts a year before its due to end, so for most claimants they have to start the renewal phase yearly and most claims are awarded for two years.

Why do you think PIP should be means tested? Disability doesn’t care how much you earn and lower or increase your disability when your wages change, you don’t suddenly have fewer symptoms or limitations because you received a bonus.

I’d like to see what rental property you can both buy and maintain on £400 a month.

I wonder how many people who genuinely have had long term health issues following catching Covid did so as a result of the spread following 'eat out to help out'? Who would not have caught Covid on that occasion if there had been no scheme, or if takeaways had been included so they would have eaten at home or in the open air?

How does providing a small amount of financial support victimise someone with a disability, or infantalise them or label them unable to do anything? Odd people also go on about unemployment when discussing a benefit that is in no way related to unemployment.

Did I say it didn’t exist?

😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫

Something interesting (to me as an economist) that Covid and the furlough scheme shone a light on in the UK is that our out of work benefits are exceedingly low by OECD standards. We are a complete outlier. By contrast, furlough was paid at a similar rate to other developed economies.

It makes perfect sense to me that if you were ill in the UK whether that be with physical or mental health issues, you'd need to rely on the incapacity benefit system/sick pay system instead, because you cannot possibly live on Jobseekers' Allowance and nor are you intended to do so.

I have two friends suffering Long Covid. They are managing to work, just about, and care for their kids. Both were also suffering a different post viral syndrome before Covid came along.

If nothing else, I hope medical knowledge moves forward on the immune system thanks to Covid.

In the meantime no government policy of this kind can possibly work when there's such a lack of services.

Stupid ideological posturing.

Thats as ignorant as saying a badly behaved dog should just shape up and stop being "naughty".... or do they need intervention to become "better" dogs?

Do you advise that to your clients? or better training?

Severe MH issues are not easily overcome & its very easy for people of privilege to dismiss other peoples health issues.

The ADHD bill is 300m, much of that is already covers job coaches and some therapies, so not sure what Richi Sunak is on about, apart from appealing to the far right voter and the stupid.

I’d like to see what rental property you can both buy and maintain on £400 a month.

they get significantly more than £400 a month and you don’t need the pip to buy or maintain the property. They saved it up for a couple of years as they weren’t spending it, had enough for a good deposit and then use the rental income to pay the mortgage.

My health has been shit since covid, mainly digestive related so not a disability, but I have another condition that is classed as a disability but not bad enough not to work - but I work fewer hours and hybrid to accommodate it I suppose. I’m wary of working f/t in a more stressful environment as it would no doubt exacerbate symptoms.
Rishi is completely out of touch with society though, yes.