Difficult DD

[RareTulipsDisplay]

I moved here just over a year ago, having lost my DH, after caring for him for four years, to be close to my DD her DP and my little GD. I have done a lot for them, including free childcare once or twice a week, financial help etc. My DD has twice said very hurtful things to me and upset me dreadfully.

Last week, when dropping of my DGD I asked her about her little dog which may have cancer. I have looked after this dog frequently when they go away and am very fond of her. She said, " It's not your concern. It's our dog, not yours". Then my little GD asked for a snack, and already rattled I made a joke and said, "Oh a smack", and patted her on the bottom. My DD went ballistic at me using that word, though she has never mentioned this before, despite lots of other things she has explained that they don't say, and which I have respected. I walked away rather than respond as I was upset and she turned to my DGD and said spitefully, " Your grandma used to smack me when I was a little girl." While that is true, it sounded so cruel, taken out of the context that I asked her to leave. I looked after my DGD all day, despite feeling very hurt.

Her DP picked up the child and of course, she had not told him the whole story. I said that I needed a heartfelt apology from her. Several days later she arrived, supposedly to apologise but proceeded to gaslight me and change what was said by both of us. She left after dropping the biggest bomb and saying that my DH had once smacked her so hard that she flew across the room. My DH never laid a hand on anyone, ever, in the 50+ years that we were together.

I spoke to my DS who supposedly was there when this happened and he agreed that it never did and that his DD never smacked him. She has cancelled a spa date that I booked for us, for her birthday and my next day with my GGD, as if I have done something wrong and she is punishing me.

I haven't confronted her on what she said as I don't know what to do. I don't want to lose contact with my DGD. She had conflicts with her DD over the wedding with her ex, which were to do with her attitude and money, but that's no excuse for saying things about him when he's not here to answer back. My only thoughts on her lying is her hormones (struggling to conceive and on progesterone) or issues implanted during all the therapy she had after the break-up with her ex.

What do I do? I am so angry and hurt about this. At the moment I am just not contacting either of them and am waiting for them to need my help again and to contact me. Sorry for the long post and possible mistakes as it's my first one. I am hoping for some support and sensible advice. Thankyou.

[Fidgety31]

It’s a fine line to tread being grandma .
I would give her a little space for now … then send neutral messages . I wouldn’t churn over this incident or the past unless she specifically raises it - purely because this all delays access with your grand daughter .

[stayathomer]

She seemed to have been gearing up for a fight that day but maybe she remembers things differently to you? I sometimes say about things that happened to my mum and she doesn't think it happened and then we go to my sister who tells us she saw something entirely different to both of us! Definitely give her space and with the greatest of respect if someone told me I needed to apologise they'd rile me up twice as much. You both need to talk (and not be around each other so much)

[WhiteLeopard]

OP, I know that smacking was probably normal when you were a parent, but you have to understand that things have changed and it is massively frowned upon now. Whether or not your late DH ever smacked DD, you have admitted that you did. This may have affected your DD more than you realised at the time and may well still be upsetting for her now.

You say you're expecting a heartfelt apology. But I think you also need to consider giving one. Be the bigger person and apologise for your past mistakes.

[Octavia64]

Hmm.

What is considered good childcare changes.

These days smacking is (generally) considered inappropriate and there is a movement to make it illegal in England. Personally this isn't something I would joke about and I can see why your DD didn't like it.

Equally, you can't be 100% sure your DH didn't smack her as a child. You won't have been there all the times that she was with her dad and it's the sort of thing that you remember as a child whereas your DH might never have even mentioned it to you.

I wouldn't be giving you a heartfelt apology (or any apology to be honest).

Obviously your DD may well be very difficult in many ways and this is just one situations, so maybe you are more in the right most of the time.

But brutally she controls access to your grandchild. Either get on with her or get less access.

[PhuckyNell]

See the thing if your dd was that traumatised by being smacked as a child why would she trust you with her child?

so all this 'being affected badly' business doesn't make sense to me.

I wouldn't leave my dd with someone who had hurt me as a child simple as that

she's got the hump over something else and you are the scapegoat for it I expect

[Prawncow]

You need to look to your own behaviour. You escalated the first incident from what sounds like her being a bit short with you to you asking her to leave your house. Then you involved her partner. When she told you your husband had smacked her you accuse her of lying and involve her brother. What do you think is going to happen?

[Soonenough]

Forget looking for an apology nobody responds well.to an ultimatum. Your dog remark may have come across as a criticism about it's care. Then you went and made a inappropriate remark about smacking. Really really inappropriate and surely you don't to be told that . And to deny her story about being smacked by her father is not right . Why would she lie ? You didn't have to defend him just maybe say I'm sorry that happened. I was smacked as a child but my parents in later life admitted that it was wrong and very widespread. I seem to be criticising you but just trying to show you a different side.
Helping them , spending time with your granddaughter should not have strings attached . Don't let a fairly non event ruin your relationship. Ask your daughter if you can both move on and start afresh .

[Anxiouslump]

I feel for you. It sounds as thought your daughter has some emotional baggage that she is working through, and is taking it out on you. It is hurtful. If you can, try putting just a bit more distance between you. I don’t mean sulking, I just mean that you see less of her, while keeping the relationship positive and the childcare arrangement with the grandchild.
I wouldn’t be making any more plans like spa days etc. This is to remove you from the firing line. When you spend a lot of time together, she will take her emotions out on you, hurt you, and blame you for the fallout that ensues (and you might do the same with her, when emotions run high). If you don’t see her as much, there will be less opportunity for this to happen. She will need to find other outlets and ways to work through whatever she is processing, and you will have less hurt feelings to chew over. You can see more of each other if and when the time feels right. Absence makes the heart grow fonder, as they say.

[Marghogeth]

Were they happy when you moved closer? It sounds like your husband wasn't her Dad and she feels you've been focusing on him rather than supporting your daughter with her young family? If my mother turned up on my doorstep and started throwing her weight around I'd have issues too.

[InTheShallowTheShalalalalalalalow]

You and your dd need a good chat. One where you listen, because it actually doesn't sound like you do here.

She has basically told you that she is traumatised by being smacked as a child, and you've shrugged your shoulders and then went out of your way to prove her wrong.

If you want a relationship with her and your grandchild you need to listen and accept what she says.

You have your perception, she has hers, and possibly somewhere in the middle is where the truth is. It depends on what you value more, being correct, or your dd and your dgc I suppose.

[PollyOttle]

Memory is a funny thing. I have a sibling (who has always been a bit of a negative nelly tbh) who remembers all sorts of terrible incidents like that which either didn't happen or were insignificant enough to me that I've forgotten. I suspect it's total fabrication in honesty as our other siblings don't remember them happening either, but willing to accept this sibling genuinely believes these things happened.

Enid Blyton had two daughters, they had the same childhood and they remembered it VERY differently.

It may be that your daughter really does believe what she is saying in which case there is no point arguing over whether or not it happened or asking for an apology, as she will just think you are gaslighting her. You're probably feeling particularly protective of your late husband given that you cared for him so long and he's no longer here to give his side as you say. I'm so sorry for your loss, and for the hurt you must feel hearing ill of him from your DD after his death. But I think you need to let it go as trying to discuss it isn't going to end well for either of you.

[FrenchandSaunders]

well if her childhood was so awful why is she relying on you for childcare. She can't have it both ways.

I feel for you OP, she sounds very hard work.

[londonloves]

You need to apologise for having smacked her as a child.

[pbdr]

It sounds like she's acting out, but don't underestimate the impact that the smacking may still have, and it's clear that the pretend/play smack towards your granddaughter has really triggered some buried feelings.
There were 2 episodes of our parents smacking my sister and I that I vividly remember. A single smack each time with no more abusive features, but the anger and hurt that I feel has never fully gone away, even though we otherwise have a great relationship. The last time that I cried about it I was in my 20s, and if my mother joked about smacking my daughter I can imagine I may aggressively want to protect her from even joking about that.
I think apologising to her for smacking her as a child and the enduring impact it has clearly had on her would go a long way towards repairing the relationship.

[FrenchandSaunders]

I'm not a fan of all the naval gazing therapy about childhood, unless of course there has been abuse or neglect. The vast majority of us are doing the best we can at the time. Things change as the years go by and our children will parent differently, that's life. No need to kick off about every comment or action.

[Haydenn]

I’d give her space, I’m sure when she needs childcare she’ll be back. She sounds like she was looking for a fight or a row. If it wasn’t the comment about smacking it would have been something else.

[9mon]

I don’t think it’s true siblings have the same childhood. Mine have had a very different one which is painful for me but I do recognise it.

I wouldn’t like the smacking joke to be honest.

[MintTwirl]

What was it you actually said about the dog? Was it simply ‘how is fluffy?’ or was something that came across as a criticism of how they are dealing with their dogs health? It sounds like the latter from her reaction.

When she mentioned you smacking her I would have just said yes and I’m sorry for that, thankfully we know better now or something similar. I suspect your DH did hit her and that is why the tak of smacking triggered her so much, it was unfair to get your DS involved, he may not remember or want to upset you by saying it happened.

[Mischance]

@PhuckyNell

See the thing if your dd was that traumatised by being smacked as a child why would she trust you with her child?

so all this 'being affected badly' business doesn't make sense to me.

I wouldn't leave my dd with someone who had hurt me as a child simple as that

she's got the hump over something else and you are the scapegoat for it I expect

This is exactly what I thought.

It is difficult being a grandparent. Things are done very differently now and, as a grandmother myself, I am always at great pains to either ask what DDs want me to do, or observe their approach carefully in order to get things right for them.

But I am sure that sometimes I fall down - I am only human! Luckily my DDs are open-minded and tolerant. They would not of course tolerate me smacking the GC (which incidentally your mother did not do) and I would not dream of doing it.

I was smacked (a lot) when I was a child, but thought nothing of it as all my mates were in the same boat. It was simply not worthy of comment. I did smack one of my DDs once (PMT!) and have felt awful about it ever since - I talked with her about it when she was adult and she could not remember it!

Let the dust settle a bit OP - you do not know what else was going on in her life that day. Forget insisting on an apology. Just enjoy your DGC when they next call on you to care for her - as they undoubtedly will.

[Yummymummy2020]

Hmm it’s a tricky one. My mum was pretty awful growing up, and so we just don’t ever leave the kids with her for fear that she will treat them in the same way. So unless your daughter has no choice at all, I wonder why she does trust you for childcare. This is just from someone who genuinely took issue with their childhood coming from parents with drinking issues, I’m not saying you were as bad as mine. But really my point is, others could be right that maybe she was taking some anger out on you. But equally if she was desperate for childcare and you were her only choice, the smacking may very well have left a lot of upset with her. To be fair, I know times have changed but it’s still a horrible thing to do regardless of it being socially acceptable at the time and if it was me I would acknowledge that and I would be thinking of the impact it would have on my relationship with my grandchild if I didn’t try to make amends for past wrongs🤷🏼‍♀️ she might be difficult but it sounds like she is having a tough time. Sometimes when people are having a hard time, things that might not upset them normally upset them more🤷🏼‍♀️ you probably will never know what happened with the smacking that her sibling denies, but you do know that you smacked her so that’s bad enough really, she dosent need more reason to be upset about that. I guess really you can only take it at face value, but whether you like it or not, it’s all up to her really the degree of a relationship you have with your grandchild. It might not seem fair but I would try my best to make amends where I could, I wouldn’t demand an apology and I would try and keep some extra space if you feel time together to the extent it is will only cause rows. My mum gets to see my kids a lot and just not unsupervised but we make it work so that they still have a good relationship with her. When they are older they can make their own decisions about relationships but it dosent sound like your daughter worries too much about the past repeating itself if she does let you provide childcare(and isn’t desperate).

[pointythings]

The smacking remark was really, really inappropriate. My mum smacked us. After I had my DC and she saw how I parented them, she spontaneously apologised for having smacked us and told me she wished she'd done it my way. You owe your DD an apology for smacking her as a child. You also owe her an apology for not believing her. Mend those fences before it's too late.

[HcbSS]

You sound like a caring granny and she a hormonal, stroppy madam picking fights. Yet she is happy to accept cash handouts ehh?
At least you don’t have to live with her.
Condolences on the loss of your husband.

[MmedeGouge]

@Fidgety31

It’s a fine line to tread being grandma .
I would give her a little space for now … then send neutral messages . I wouldn’t churn over this incident or the past unless she specifically raises it - purely because this all delays access with your grand daughter .

I feel this is very good advice. I was about to say the same to you.
With the possible extra advice that my grandma used to say to me - “Least said soonest mended”.
You have my heartfelt sympathy though.
Good Luck.

[Whatifthehokeycokey]

My parents smacked us as children, but I trust them to look after their grandchild because it's so obvious that times have changed. We've never explicitly talked about it. I could tell from the way Mum talked about it at the time, "your cousins get a lot more smacks than you do" "your cousins get smacked a lot harder than you do" that she knew it wasn't the best parenting.

I imagine you making a joke about something like that made her quite angry. Even if we accept that in the 80s and 90s it was pretty standard and normal to smack children, and now it is not acceptable, I don't think you should make a joke about it.

You've also chosen not to believe a story she remembers from childhood about being smacked far too hard by her father. I'm not sure how a relationship can come back from that, honestly. Why would she misremember something like that? Why would you choose your son's side of the story over hers, when she is more likely to remember since it actually happened to her? I don't think she's the one who should be apologising.

[Snugglemonkey]

@FrenchandSaunders

I'm not a fan of all the naval gazing therapy about childhood, unless of course there has been abuse or neglect. The vast majority of us are doing the best we can at the time. Things change as the years go by and our children will parent differently, that's life. No need to kick off about every comment or action.

There was abuse. The op assaulted her daughter. She would do well to apologise.