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Original poster

Has anybody been able to continue driving after having an insurance policy cancelled? I’m in bits

424 replies

GraceyBeaker · 12/04/2024 09:36

I’m mid 20s. Passed my test yesterday, absolutely over the moon. I have a car ready for me, my partner’s old one. It’s a 2007 Yaris. The car did fail its MOT a month ago but it’s only a small part replacement that we will get round to doing now that I’ve passed. It’s essential I drive ASAP for various reasons. It’s too far to walk to most places and I can’t do buses, within 5 minutes of being on a bus I have to get off to be sick. I have severe motion sickness on buses.

Problem is, I don’t think I can afford any insurance. When I was 18 I tried learning with my dad and used a monetary gift from my grandparents to buy a little car. We arranged learners insurance, a black box policy. When filling in the forms we said we’d be practicing 2x times a week. However, my dad never kept to his promise of practicing with me, constantly fobbing me off when I asked and so we went months without using the car. This made the insurance company think we had turned the black box off and were driving without it, which resulted in them cancelling the policy. I received notice at the time that they were cancelling the policy but being a naive 18 year old I never realised it would affect me going forward, so I just let it happen.

Now when applying for insurance I have to declare I’ve had a cancelled policy, and my quotes are all £8000+. I have no idea what to do, I feel like I’m being treated like a criminal.

Any advice?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Greenfluffycardi · 15/04/2024 21:31

Darkedonlinen · 12/04/2024 10:18

This seems pretty ridiculous to be honest, surely plenty of people go a couple of months without driving and their policies aren’t cancelled! Is there anything in the policy wording saying you need to let them know if you’re not using the car? I would maybe speak with citizens advice as well.

It’s because of the black box. As it wasn’t recording any journeys the insurance company assumed it had been switched off. My daughter’s learners policy is pretty cheap without a black box. I think they’re more trouble than they’re worth.

Greenfluffycardi · 15/04/2024 21:38

Reugny · 15/04/2024 17:49

Insurance companies have a duty to treat consumers fairly.

They are reasons e.g. illness, Covid lockdowns, where people wouldn't have used their cars and so stating that insurance is going to be cancelled in those circumstances is clearly unfair.

Apart from a potential claim which was wiped off my record, a few years later I also put in a complaint about an insurer making it difficult for people to opt-out of auto-renew. In short when you took out the policy you could not opt-out of auto-renew, you had to wait until under a month before the policy was about to expire to do so. And then you could only do it by phoning a specific phone number. The relevant ombudsman took up the case on my behalf and this is why people can now easily opt out of auto-renewal at anytime during their policy.

Show quote history

The insurance company won’t care if you don’t use your car. I rarely use mine. I pay around £400 a year. In the OP’s case because the black box didn’t record journeys so they assumed she’d turned it off.

AnonoMisss · 15/04/2024 22:13

WombatChocolate · 15/04/2024 09:13

As OP says in a recent post, and as the insurer who cancelled her confirmed, if they cancel due to lack of use,it’s not a cancellation which needs declaring. It is simply a terminated policy.

This happens a lot with black box policies - they get cancelled due to the box not being installed in a time period or connection issues. In the FAQs section in most if their websites, they make clear that if they cancel for this kind of reason, you dont have to declare it as a cancellation.

OP even has the reply from the insurers telling her this now. But she can tick the ‘no cancellation’ box with confidence.

And for anyone else in a similar situation in future, if you ever get warned cancellation is likely - they always tell you it will be within 7 days, you can then cancel it yourself first. A warning that cancellation is coming is not a cancellation in itself.

Insurers need to be clearer about which cancellations need declaring and which don’t. Hastings is one of the biggest black box policy insurers. They cancel loads per year..but these don’t need declaring when they haven’t been for fraud reasons.

This!!!!

AnonoMisss · 15/04/2024 22:21

Ordeall · 15/04/2024 00:01

"I do this for a living"

And what exactly do you do for a living? Work a 30K a year job at an insurance company and think you know law?

Law is law. Either know it and use it to your advantage, or stay poor. Whatever.

Doesn't matter about the ins and outs of the previous policy, there is no way of any insurance company proving that you didn't answer questions to the best of your knowledge. It's that simple.

Show quote history

Firstly law is law is only applicable if you are going through the court. The FOS will consider law but also have additional considerations separate from law as one example.

They don't need to 'prove' they just need to show 51% on the balance of probability and FOS adjudicate 'on the balance of probably'.

As others have mentioned you have made a lot of incorrect statements in this thread.

DanielGault · 15/04/2024 22:23

GraceyBeaker · 12/04/2024 15:44

That’s not what I was asking him though. I stated I understand that the policy had been cancelled by them. But that I just wanted confirmation as to whether my cancellation information had been passed on to the insurance database. I expected him to confirm this. But then he started waffling on about how such a database doesn’t even exist but that he still recommends I declare it, which I obviously will anyway.

But if the database doesn’t exist, then I can’t appeal to have anything remove from it.

Show quote history

It only matters if you have a future claim/issue. So one (not you) can lie/omit/ forget all one wants, but when that's discovered, one is royally fucked. Insurance companies show no mercy. Honesty is the only policy when it comes to insurance imo.

AnonoMisss · 15/04/2024 22:24

Catza · 12/04/2024 09:53

@GraceyBeaker bummer....
I think you can check somewhere if you still have cancelled insurance record. I am not sure where exactly. Experian, maybe?

Experian is for credit and will not show cancellation of insurance as such (why it was cancelled etc). However if you took out premium finance it may show the actual loan though.

AnonoMisss · 15/04/2024 22:27

kirinm · 12/04/2024 12:26

How long ago did this happen OP? If they've said 2027 and insurers usually want you to declare your insurance history going back about 5 years, I assume it's only 2 years ago?

The FOS will expect you to have formally complained to the insurer before you go to them (I think) so find out what their complaints procedure is, follow it and then for to the FOS (you have 6 years to go to the FOS).

Just to clarify its 6 months from business sending a final response or summary resolution communication and 6 years from the event being complained about (or, if later, three years from when your customer knew – or ought reasonably to have known, they had cause to complain).

AnonoMisss · 15/04/2024 22:30

Mrsttcno1 · 12/04/2024 12:32

You’ve got absolutely nothing to bargain with OP.

Read over the insurance documents from them.

It will very clearly state the t’s and c’s of your cover, one of which you KNOW what to regularly drive. You did not do this. Therefore you breached the terms of the policy resulting in policy being cancelled.

My sister works in car insurance for the AA and this is where their conditions are absolutely water tight. Breach of insurance t’s and c’s = cancelled policy, and they did send you a warning. Very simple open and shut case for them.

Show quote history

Anyone dissatisfied should always complain snd go to FOS their decisions are not only based on T&Cs with many upholds issued going against T&Cs (if for example T&Cs are unfair or not clearly communicated etc)

AnonoMisss · 15/04/2024 22:40

Anastasia666 · 12/04/2024 12:54

Actually that very much depends on what the contract says. Telematics policies are different to normal private car policies. If it says in the terms and conditions that they will give x number of warnings then they must do that.

May be worth looking at your documentation to see what it says regarding warnings.

Show quote history

This

AnonoMisss · 15/04/2024 22:44

kirinm · 12/04/2024 13:23

@Scottishwildcat I'm an insurance solicitor and believe me, lots of decisions made by insurers get challenged successfully.

Yes!!!!!!!! Agree!!!!

AnonoMisss · 15/04/2024 22:45

Tohaveandtohold · 12/04/2024 13:38

What do you mean by ‘she’s completely in the wrong’. There’s definitely a basis for a complaint. The insurance was cancelled because they felt that she has disconnected the black box however she didn’t, she just didn’t use the car. I’ve had a black box insurance before and there has never been a requirement that I have to drive, it’s always a requirement that I have to always use the black box though. The op had the black box fitted in the car the whole time, she didn’t turn it off, she just didn’t use the car ( she might have been sick, hospitalised, unable to drive for whatever reason) so why will she then now be penalised for another 5 years for this.
You were 18 at the time though I feel that should have been when you should have complained about it but it’s definitely worth complaining now, what’s the evidence that you tampered with the box, ask then to send you a final response letter if they don’t change their stance and go to FOS. I’ve worked in complaints in a financial institution in the past and there are lots of reasons why an old decision gets overturned, we’ve been known to amend people’s credit file, etc when due diligence has not been done on our part even when the T&C’s are watertight so it’s worth complaining and stop using your limited experience to state your opinion as though they are facts

Show quote history

This x 1000!!!!!

AnonoMisss · 15/04/2024 22:49

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 12/04/2024 16:25

Surely the black box data would have shown it was still active and datato show it was disabled or otherwise??

OP, tell the insurance co to provide you with eveience that your blackbox was removed which it was not as they should have date when its connected and disconnected

NB: I decided to look up the blackbox and if it removed.
Hope it helps
https://www.moneyexpert.com/car-insurance/ask-an-expert/will-my-insurance-know-if-i-unplug-my-black-box/

Edited

This.

AnonoMisss · 15/04/2024 22:52

Mrsttcno1 · 12/04/2024 16:59

Why are you so bothered about this? It. Does. Not. Matter. You received it, you know you received it, and you claim to be an honest person, so it literally does not make one jot of difference whether they can send you it again or not unless you’re going to lie and say you didn’t get any warning.

Let that go OP it’s irrelevant

Show quote history

Its not!!! Have you worked in motor insurance complaints or FOS? The first thing FOS does is ask the business to provide their file and evidence so it is VERY much relevant.

AnonoMisss · 15/04/2024 22:56

GraceyBeaker · 12/04/2024 18:55

And now the situation gets even bloody weirder. Just seen an email from customer service that was sent at 5pm in response to my call before. Apparently they looked into it further and clarified that “the policy was cancelled because you went 28 days without driving the car”. This is apparently stated on the insurance documents, but I see nothing about 28 days when I search the documents. Then the email says a policy cancelled for this reason does not need to be declared to other insurance providers and that the company is typically lenient towards policyholders that have a policy cancelled for this reason. Furthermore, it states that had I contacted them at the time, they would have reinstated the policy.

I never did at the time, because it was pointless as I wasn’t getting to drive.

This seems like good news but I’m not quite convinced as I was told otherwise on the phone (that I should declare it) and how can this company speak on behalf of other providers by saying they don’t need to know?

what a mindfuck

All that matters is you have in writing you do not need to declare this type of cancellation!!!!!! Keep that safe!

AnonoMisss · 15/04/2024 22:57

GraceyBeaker · 12/04/2024 20:06

Have heard stories of people getting their insurance cancelled because the companies have found that they did several quotes with slightly different details each time, meaning that the insurance company doesn’t know which details are true or not. Happened to a friend’s DD who messed around with her occupation on insurance sites. she was an undergraduate but found it was cheaper to put her part-time job title (childcare worker) as her occupation rather than putting that she was a student. She signed up for the policy then had it cancelled a few weeks later because they said they couldn’t trust what her job title was.

Show quote history

True

AnonoMisss · 15/04/2024 23:00

PlanningTowns · 12/04/2024 22:42

No but it’s highly unlikely the ombudsman will take the case on. They will throw it out at the first stage after you have been through the companies complaint procedures. And if you lie and say you never received the warning letter that will also be fraud (which you have said you received but say it’s not on the online account).

you should have sorted this at the time. If you are old enough to drive and buy your own insurance you were old enough to take all the responsibilities that come with that.

no insurance company will care why you had your insurance cancelled but will care that it was and they are unlikely to want your business. I don’t know if it’s fair or not, but you signed up for it and didn’t honour your end (yeah it’s a bugger your dad didn’t do what she said he would but that’s not the insurance companies fault).

Show quote history

This is complete rubbish. There are strict rules about which cases FOS can't take and its reserved for cases without an eligible complainant mainly (and this is not within that).

AnonoMisss · 15/04/2024 23:02

eurochick · 12/04/2024 22:59

I hope with a broker and the 5pm email you have a way forward.

I've technically had a policy cancelled : our car was stolen as part of a burglary. The policy paid out without a quibble but the insurer then sent a letter saying they were cancelling the policy. I was quite alarmed by this as I was well aware that cancellations cause issues, but when I spoke to them it turned out this was simply because I no longer had anything to insure. The same company was happy to offer me a policy a few days later when I bought a replacement car and like you've I've been told it is not the sort of cancellation they mean. When I've taken out insurance since then I've preferred to do it on the phone so I can explain rather than just having to either say I have had a policy cancelled or risk being accused of not declaring that I have.

Yes! An insurer has to cancel the policy if no insurable asset!

AnonoMisss · 15/04/2024 23:04

Craftier · 13/04/2024 09:26

That won't be enough to uphold the complaint to the FOS. they sent it, you received it. That letter not being on the online portal will not be enough for the FOS to find in your favour. You will have to demonstrate that they treated you unfairly, however if their terms state the device has to receive data or they will cancel the insurance then they are within their rights to cancel the policy as you haven't upheld your end of the bargain. If you'd canceled the insurance yourself when you received that warning letter on the basis that you weren't going to drive the car enough, you wouldn't have a cancellation on your record - just in case anyone else finds themselves in that position - cancel it yourself first.

There are databases where insurers can see if someone has previously had insurance cancelled - insurance companies share all sorts of information.

Look for specialist brokers such as adrian flux where you might be able to explain the circumstances and hopefully get a better premium.

Show quote history

Unless you have worked at FOS and know their approach you are not able to know what they will do.

AnonoMisss · 15/04/2024 23:08

AdamDDD · 14/04/2024 20:58

Ok so mid 40 year old guy here with a lot of experience on this!

Firstly...do not challenge the insurance company just yet. You need to have a plan of action regards exactly what grounds you are basing your complaint and also your wording etc. Be careful how you proceed. Don't screw it up for yourself as you actually only do get one shot at this.

First Google Policy Assist...they are very very good people. I'm not based mainland UK so they couldn't really actively help me but they literally sat on the phone with me for 2 hours giving me free advice and it was the only useful advice anybody could give me out of over 280 phone calls over 7 years.

Unlike the financial ombudsman who are actually about as much help as a chocolate teacup...the guys at policy assist can actually help.

They charge a fee as it's an actual service BUT they are pretty genuine....they were honest with me and said they wouldn't take my money as my one is complicated although innocent and they weren't confident enough they could be successful.

They can help you challenge cancellation and if your mainland UK...can help find you a policy.

I'm same as you...never had a clue it was even a thing....

I made an innocent mistake...we are literally talking paperwork and post here...literally nothing else. Nothing withheld, nothing purposefully undisclosed. And very genuinely nothing that I could ever have had control over.

Yet I was left in position where within 24 hrs of recieving an email, I was facing loosing my business. Eventually lost my family as after 2 years it was ruining us.

The worst was that nobody would actually give me details...stating data protection...I had to do a data request...it took 3 months to get info that allowed me to dig and find why my policy was voided.

In the first 6 months after my policy was voided, I spent £14000 on hire vehicles and was actively working from 6am until 10/11pm 6-6.5 days a week for approx 50% of my income to try and keep cogs in motion. I didn't eat much, I didn't buy anything...and I really do mean anything..for myself.

We were already coping with stresses 99% of average families with kids thankfully don't have to suffer.

A profoundly disabled daughter, a young teenage son suffering clinical psychosis.and attempting suicide, a long distance suddenly relocation due to the above, family home at other end of country in half renovated state due to being badly ripped off by a building squad and a Mom who was suffering PTSD.

Eventually I actually had to leave the country to enable me to insure and provide income for my family that was by then, no longer with.

I'm a normal, honest, crazy hard working guy with a clean licence, no accidents, no claims, no points, no convictions...and I'm uninsurable in the UK.

I've spent the past 2 years sleeping in back of my van when away working to ensure I can fund the kids and give their mum money for the half finished house which I intend to keep and repair, sell and eventually (they don't know this yet) just build them a home that they can have forever to be safe in. I intend to just rent for rest of my days when I have it all under control.

All of the above current circumstances are the direct consequence of an insurer voiding my policy over something utterly trivial and actually something that wasn't within my control to inform them off as I did not know. Without allowing me the opportunity to defend myself.

This took place 2017. I'm still suffering the consequences.

Currently stuck with a completely unsuitable vehicle that's now knackered and costing me £4000 average per year on repairs and 1400 tax (yes that's right...1400)due to being stuck with 1 insurer who will only insure me on this vehicle.

Still uninsurable in UK.

At one point during all of this I became so low I had a period where I had an overwhelming urge to end things. But thankfully I was able to pull myself together as became self aware enough to spot the red flags in my thoughts. Never thought I'd be "that" guy.

Desperate to come home and be close to my kids.

Desperate to even come home to be around people.

I've recently been taking steps to prepare something (exactly what...I still don't know) to make noise about this law/policy in general as it's almost cartel like in how it's set up, adopted and put into action.

So yes...rant over...google policy assist. Good people...straight, honest and knowledgeable all about this...every little detail.

Edited

So sorry to hear what you have been through 💔

LittleCharlotte · 15/04/2024 23:25

You poor thing OP. You've collided with some real nasty pieces on here. Firstly congratulations on passing your test! It's a great achievement. Secondly, I'm so glad that you got some clarity from the insurance company. A terminated policy is different to a cancelled one, but you have reassurance in writing which can back you up.

Please let us know how you get on. Put a lot of vinegar-breasted individuals on Ignore. They're jealous of you because you're young, I suspect. Good luck with your career too! What a fantastic job.

sanogo · 15/04/2024 23:32

OP. I know somebody that had a black box policy cancelled because they didn't register the black box with the app in time

I think it was with Hastings but not sure. When asked Hastings? said that if my friend went with them in the future they wouldn't class this as having had insurance canceled

Strange I know but you could try ringing the company that canceled your policy and asking them the same question

Halloweenrainbow · 16/04/2024 06:00

In Edinburgh, people used to stick their bus 'day tickets' into the corner of the timetable display in the shelter when they were finished with them for somebody else to use. I always thought this was lovely.

Halloweenrainbow · 16/04/2024 06:01

Halloweenrainbow · 16/04/2024 06:00

In Edinburgh, people used to stick their bus 'day tickets' into the corner of the timetable display in the shelter when they were finished with them for somebody else to use. I always thought this was lovely.

sorry, wrong thread

DanielGault · 16/04/2024 06:35

mummydoris2006 · 15/04/2024 16:04

@GraceyBeaker can I ask what sort of price you were expecting to pay for insurance without this happening? My DD got a quote last year and it was 21k and didn't even include break down cover! Obviously, we didn't take it out but I know many young people paying about 8k a year for insurance unfortunately.

WTAF!?! What was she driving? (A Boeing 747?)

DanielGault · 16/04/2024 06:37

Always good to ring the company directly if you get a quote from a broker. It can often be cheaper or allow for negotiation.