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AIBU?

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Original poster

Has anybody been able to continue driving after having an insurance policy cancelled? I’m in bits

424 replies

GraceyBeaker · 12/04/2024 09:36

I’m mid 20s. Passed my test yesterday, absolutely over the moon. I have a car ready for me, my partner’s old one. It’s a 2007 Yaris. The car did fail its MOT a month ago but it’s only a small part replacement that we will get round to doing now that I’ve passed. It’s essential I drive ASAP for various reasons. It’s too far to walk to most places and I can’t do buses, within 5 minutes of being on a bus I have to get off to be sick. I have severe motion sickness on buses.

Problem is, I don’t think I can afford any insurance. When I was 18 I tried learning with my dad and used a monetary gift from my grandparents to buy a little car. We arranged learners insurance, a black box policy. When filling in the forms we said we’d be practicing 2x times a week. However, my dad never kept to his promise of practicing with me, constantly fobbing me off when I asked and so we went months without using the car. This made the insurance company think we had turned the black box off and were driving without it, which resulted in them cancelling the policy. I received notice at the time that they were cancelling the policy but being a naive 18 year old I never realised it would affect me going forward, so I just let it happen.

Now when applying for insurance I have to declare I’ve had a cancelled policy, and my quotes are all £8000+. I have no idea what to do, I feel like I’m being treated like a criminal.

Any advice?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
shoppingshamed · 15/04/2024 05:49

JellyTipisthebest · 15/04/2024 01:01

Adding an extra driver brings the cost down as you have someone to share the load if you are out and feel tried or ill.

A car can only be driven by one person at a time so adding drivers doesn't increase thier risk. We added a second young/learner driver and were surprised as it didn't really change much. They view it as they are aready insuring for one young driver so adding another isn't changing anything as only one can drive at a time and there is only so many hours in a day so now that is probably divided between the two.
Your partner doesn't need to drive the car much if a all. It means that he's insured if he needs to move the car for any reason.

I never thought about why adding a second driver makes the insurance cheaper but if it's because you can swap drivers if you're tired wouldn't that person always have to be in the car with you? How does the insurance company know that?

KoolKookaburra · 15/04/2024 05:52

shoppingshamed · 15/04/2024 05:49

I never thought about why adding a second driver makes the insurance cheaper but if it's because you can swap drivers if you're tired wouldn't that person always have to be in the car with you? How does the insurance company know that?

Show quote history

They don't know that. It's all on algorithms

VestibuleVirgin · 15/04/2024 06:25

Go to an insurance broker. They are able to navigate through, and negotiate all the policies, many of which are not offered on comparison sites, etc.
Easily found in high street or using our friend Google

Menapausemum1974 · 15/04/2024 06:34

GraceyBeaker · 12/04/2024 15:44

That’s not what I was asking him though. I stated I understand that the policy had been cancelled by them. But that I just wanted confirmation as to whether my cancellation information had been passed on to the insurance database. I expected him to confirm this. But then he started waffling on about how such a database doesn’t even exist but that he still recommends I declare it, which I obviously will anyway.

But if the database doesn’t exist, then I can’t appeal to have anything remove from it.

Show quote history

@GraceyBeaker i had exactly this. I’d called insurance to say about a bump I’d had but the other party decided it wasn’t worth going through insurance so I never put through the claim. Then when I was looking for new insurance I was hauled up for fraudulently claiming I had made no claims in the last 12 months ( by a different insurer) I was told to call original insurer and get this taken off, they claimed it wasn’t on there and there was no database. The new insurer had every detail about the bump including the date it happened ( I was going on holiday that day so remembered) so……… either the new insurers are psychic or there is definitely some kind of “database” retaining this kind of information

Conniebygaslight · 15/04/2024 06:36

I’ve never heard of black box insurance for a learner driver. I thought they only applied them for drivers after they’d passed. Surely a learner driver isn’t going to speed?

LiquoriceAllsorts2 · 15/04/2024 06:52

Kijuity · 12/04/2024 09:59

Thats really sad and he sounds like a shit dad. Any other family members that can help? Otherwise you'll just have to take out an £8k loan.

Show quote history

But it isn’t a one off £8k fee, it’s something that needs renewing annually. You can just keep borrowing money to fund it

Shiningout · 15/04/2024 07:27

Some People really need to start reading threads before commenting 😂

shoppingshamed · 15/04/2024 07:52

Conniebygaslight · 15/04/2024 06:36

I’ve never heard of black box insurance for a learner driver. I thought they only applied them for drivers after they’d passed. Surely a learner driver isn’t going to speed?

Black boxes are about way more than speeding, anyone can have one to reduce the cost of their insurance

Mummyofbananas · 15/04/2024 08:44

I would go back and get a hold of any information you had at the time. Were emails/letters sent to you or your dad? Get a hold of the information provided when you were given the policy- any reminders etc sent to you.
If you can prove that you weren't fully aware of the terms then you should be able to put in a valid complaint.
The laws on insurance are in the customers favour in these things so it's worth making sure- i.e. if emails were going to your dads email and you weren't aware of them etc.

Craftier · 15/04/2024 08:46

Not sure who pissed on your cornflakes and got you all fired up this morning Ordeall, but you are wrong about pretty much everything you've posted 😂

NewFriendlyLadybird · 15/04/2024 08:47

It was insurance as a learner when you could not legally have driven the car on your own.

As a driver who has passed their test you are effectively a different person, applying for a different insurance with a different set of risks. Do not worry about declaring this cancellation.

WombatChocolate · 15/04/2024 09:13

As OP says in a recent post, and as the insurer who cancelled her confirmed, if they cancel due to lack of use,it’s not a cancellation which needs declaring. It is simply a terminated policy.

This happens a lot with black box policies - they get cancelled due to the box not being installed in a time period or connection issues. In the FAQs section in most if their websites, they make clear that if they cancel for this kind of reason, you dont have to declare it as a cancellation.

OP even has the reply from the insurers telling her this now. But she can tick the ‘no cancellation’ box with confidence.

And for anyone else in a similar situation in future, if you ever get warned cancellation is likely - they always tell you it will be within 7 days, you can then cancel it yourself first. A warning that cancellation is coming is not a cancellation in itself.

Insurers need to be clearer about which cancellations need declaring and which don’t. Hastings is one of the biggest black box policy insurers. They cancel loads per year..but these don’t need declaring when they haven’t been for fraud reasons.

Conniebygaslight · 15/04/2024 09:21

shoppingshamed · 15/04/2024 07:52

Black boxes are about way more than speeding, anyone can have one to reduce the cost of their insurance

Show quote history

Yes I know, but surely learner drivers make mistakes so it seems strange that a device that penalises someone for bad driving should be used on learner insurance...

anyolddinosaur · 15/04/2024 09:55

The easiest way to sort this is to get your original insurer to reinsure you. So get a quote from them. If it seems excessive to anything you can get through a broker then that can always be part of a complaint to the Ombudsman - they screwed you over and are not putting it right.

Do have your partner as a named driver. It doesnt matter if they never drive, it means they could in an emergency, if you are tired or ill or if they just need to move the car. You are not declaring they will drive the car a particular amount, only insuring them so they can do so.

Catza · 15/04/2024 10:02

Ordeall · 15/04/2024 00:09

Can you?

Show quote history

Here is the info page from my own insurer:
Refused, Cancelled or Voided Car Insurance | Be Wiser Insurance
Here is an article from moneysupermarket
Car Insurance Cancelled, Voided or Refused | MoneySuperMarket

So far, even with cursory search you will see that everyone is pretty much in agreement that there is no time limit. Most importantly, insurance companies themselves state that. You obviously know something we don't but unless you disclose your source, I am going to go with what has been confirmed by multitude of others, including someone on here who works in the industry.

Concannon88 · 15/04/2024 10:04

Ordeall · 15/04/2024 00:22

Check with who? 😂

Insurers share details of claims, and the outcomes with the MID, in particular the value of the claim. They most certainly don't share instances of cancelled insurance. You are literally writing what you fear, and not what you actually know. I bet you're scared of going to prison for not having a TV licence too.

Show quote history

They actually do. My bf has had insurance canceled as he didn't declare hed had policies canceled in the past. They can check with other providers, they share information.

Concannon88 · 15/04/2024 10:07

Ordeall · 15/04/2024 00:14

Questions must be answered to the best of your knowledge, it will even say that on your policy documentation.

How is anybody going to prove that you didn't do that? Simple answer, they can't.

Don't get me wrong though, it sure does stop people with a low IQ getting on the roads. If you don't have the sense to know that you tick "no" then ride the bus.

Ever wondered why people who ride the bus are skint, low paid jobs, unintelligent, no ambition etc? This is why. It's not coincidence.

Show quote history

I've literally represented someone who was charged with dangerous driving and driving without valid insurance because their policy was closed as they hadn't declared canceled insurance.

Bromptotoo · 15/04/2024 10:10

A broker rather than the usual suspects recommended by Meercats etc?

Halloweenrainbow · 15/04/2024 10:50

If there's no way around it and you can't afford the 8k, my only suggestion is to wait a couple of years until you're no longer a new driver and the prices come down. For emergencies when you really need to drive, look at a short term policy with the likes of Veygo. Some of the car hire companies will accept new drivers and the insurance is included which might tide you over for a day or so but wont help longer term because it will become expensive. Sorry you're in such a crap situation.

Ariela · 15/04/2024 11:16

GraceyBeaker · 12/04/2024 17:21

it does not state a specific amount that the car should be driven anywhere in the documents. Just that the black box should be activated and receiving driving data throughout the duration of the policy. The correspondence I received just said I wasn’t using the black box as much as they had expected, and that they ‘wanted to remind me’ that the policy is only valid if I’m using the black box.

Show quote history

But the black box was connected so it's recording driving data of the status of 'not being driven' !
I think that's being unfair.

Everythinggreen · 15/04/2024 11:33

@GraceyBeaker you can deal with brokers over the phone. I've been using Elliott Westland for years for my business insurance and they always find me insurance cheaper than anywhere else (and I have a bit of a complicated set up for what I need cover for that standard insurance places cant combine for me) and the staff are lovely.

Manopadmanaban · 15/04/2024 12:08

Dartwarbler · 12/04/2024 21:21

Op, first rule of MN, do not post on AIBU if you are trying to actually get help solving a problem. In between the odd helpful poster you’ll have 10 keyboard warriors telling you that it is all your own fault, you’re entitled, you have only yourself to blame and YABU. AIBU is a open door to a pile on.

you need to post on a more sedate legal forum. You’ll get a good discussion and some actually nuanced opinions on how to proceed.

logically, it makes no sense to imply you have an increased risk to other insurance companies because you were NOT driving or on the road as much as you expcted when you signed up to th box, as a learner driver aged 18.

you are not unreasonable to state this is bizarre, unfair, and illogical. YANBU to fight it as a particularly stupid insurance con to penalise you for someone else’s actions. I think folks here forgetting you were a learner, and therefore could not drive on your own. There are a million reason why a learner driver commits to lessons and hours per week and then doesn’t manage that. it’s not a fecking problem - it’s life, shit happens to get in way of having lessons you thought you’d have. You were in your dad’s hands. He let you down. But in truth he almost certain didn’t realise they’d be any implications to you other than a disappointed and disillusioned daughter either.

yanbu to expect that they would have given you fair warning of consequences. BUT point is if even they’d have warned you, as a learner there was FA you could do as it was your dad who was refusing. Most 18 year olds don’t have a pot of money they can simply book additional lessons with cos their dad’s a lazy sod. From that perspective the policy’s black box rules were designed to fail learners. How can anyone, even whose passed there test committ absolutely, on pain of being uninsurable in the future, thst they’ll drive a minimum of x miles per week. Even with professional instructor - you sign up to lessons and then driving instructors go on holiday, get sick, their car breaks down and a hundred other reasons why your lessons get cancelled.

This sounds very much like an unfair contract . Same as any other unfair contract where terms are so slanted in favour of the provider to make them uninforcable. Plenty of examples of thst- think back to covid and holiday lets with droves of holiday companies waving policies refusing refunds and then having to back down due to the ridiculously unfair terms where legal action was being threatened. And tons of other examples in all sorts of contract law.

Despite what the pompous, holier than tho poster here say about you should have known this at 18, that’s bollocks. That’s like the people who blame those who’ve been scammed with “you should have known”. Yeah, right, you’d have known at 18 the full legal consequences of a cancelled policy having just left school or being still at school? Like fuck they would. just as they’d all have known that insuring the car you’d been given in your own name as a learner isn’t always smartest given costs etc. 🤦‍♀️no they wouldn’t, they’re just enjoying being able to make you feel shitty and panic more and bigging up their own esteem

ignore these folks. There have been good suggestions so follow those and block out the other shit. Don’t give up hounding the insurance company (and hey post their name here- it might make the news and make them focus on who’s the villain here). The latest email sounds encouraging BUT you must get clarity that they did not refuse, and the policy was terminated due to lack of use NOT cancelled. And that they do not consider that they actually cancelled it in the sense of cancelling due a a perceived heightened risk

as final suggestion who to escalate it to, social media does sometimes work. Put it on their review page. Or multiple review pages. Facebook or instagram. They need good review - it’s a very competitive market.

A sensible person at last compared to the other idiots on Mumsnet. They were being so horrible to OP, digging it in! Good luck OP.

bonzaitree · 15/04/2024 12:33

Wow OP you’ve had such a hard time on this thread. I’m sorry x

Cerealkiller4U · 15/04/2024 13:26

GraceyBeaker · 12/04/2024 16:19

It wouldn’t be fronting I don’t think as I’m still going to be the main driver. But is it illegal to put partner down as a secondary driver if, realistically, he isn’t actually ever going to drive it?

Show quote history

My husband is a named driver in my car. But I don’t think he’s ever driven it….or if he has it’s only been once or twice.

Cerealkiller4U · 15/04/2024 13:28

GraceyBeaker · 12/04/2024 16:35

Okay, okay. But genuinely, what the hell am I supposed to do? Just sack off driving forever? I, like most people, cannot afford to pay £800 a month for car insurance. yes I will shop around, speak to a broker and attempt to have my partner as a secondary driver but what if this still doesn’t work? I feel absolutely desperate.

Show quote history

Could you have not ring the insurance company when they first sent you the letter to explain why it wasn’t being driven? Then yoh could have told them and explained before they cancelled it?!?