Believing own lies

[Jellyshoe]

AIBU in struggling to comprehend how people can genuinely believe their own bullshit. It's one thing to lie but another to actually think your version of events is the truth.

Is this level of delusion a sign of a mental health disorder?

It really is crazy. My friends sister embellishes stories so much that it becomes flat out lies. Easily proven also.
She still does it.

My cousin tells the most crazy lies, and I’m pretty sure she believes some of them.

I read somewhere that for some people the emotions around an event are the only true thing, so it’s not a big deal to massage the facts to suit the emotion

@Newtonianmechanics Do you think she believes them or just does this to look impressive or more interesting?

I knew a man who used to wear a suit and briefcase and walk around the town like he was a high flying business man when he actually worked in a factory. As mental as that is, he obviously knew he was bullshitting people when he got asked what he did for a living.

She certainly acts like she believes them.
Maybe deep down she knows the score.

It can be a bit of a hangover from coping mechanisms in childhood.

I read somewhere that the children of alcoholics learn to lie to deflect from their parent(s) behaviour. This can carry on to adulthood.

Don't be too quick to judge someone for bullshitting, it might just be a sign of abuse in childhood.

Or they could just be a bullshitter.

I think there could be an element of some people telling their version of a story or events over and over again so many times, to not only themselves but others too, that it ends up ingrained in their memory and they genuinely believe it.

@randomchap

I can understand how someone might lie to look more impressive, people do that on social media all the time and I think these people are aware of what they are doing.
Someone might lie to avoid getting into trouble which is a purposeful lie, again they know they are doing it.
Perhaps it is those with underlying issues that are unaware of what they are doing.

It depends what it is really. Sometimes people just perceive things differently, sometimes it could be a cognitive issue, sometimes they may have been convinced by someone else, sometimes it’s just a mistake and sometimes they must know they are lying.

I could have sworn blind on certain occasions after having Covid I’d done something when really I’d just thought I needed to do it. Somehow my brain filled in the gap and checked it off as complete. I’m assuming that was just part of the brain fog effect.

Similar thing I feel like I remember some events from my childhood but do I really or do I just recall being told about them/seeing photos?

Tory politicians. 😂

Great post
It does not bother me as long as they are not hurting anyone

A friend of mine talked about the fantastic new house they were moving to. This was in my school days. Me and few others were invited to come over to play etc over a summer hols - IMO the house was nothing special and actually I did not like the area. However, the friend was stating the truth as when compared with what they came from and the location, this was really nice and I was please to see my friend happy

More like disordered thinking. They have to justify it in a way that doesn't make them lying or wrong in their mind. An ex of mine was a compulsive liar but always thought his actions were totally justifiable and it was the people who called him out who were the problem. Suppose it just allows people to get away with what they like, in their own brains anyway.

@whatkatydid2014

Similar thing I feel like I remember some events from my childhood but do I really or do I just recall being told about them/seeing photos?

I believe this is called The Mandela Effect.

@Jovacknockowitch All politicians, though I think the bastards know they are lying and don't care 😂

@pontypine69

I think this trait can often go hand in hand with NPD and EUPD.

I came across a forum on another website and saw this:

'BPD ex-wife followed typical bpd pattern of allowing feelings to dictate “facts” - and would either “mis-remember” events or invent her own story to fit her personal narrative.
On occasion, if I pushed the logic of it hard enough, we could get to a point where, I could demonstrate that what she was saying was impossible, say, as I would have had to have been at Point A and Point B at the same time, doing two different things.
Then it was like one of those futuristic movies with an android/human short-circuiting; I would detect maybe a twitch or two in her eye, a far-off stare and maybe mumbling something like, “…I don’t want to talk about this anymore…”
I think she truly believed her “lie” - not really the right word. It wasn’t like someone who was lying, knew they were lying and got exposed. It was more like she really believed her erroneous story and couldn’t comprehend evidence to the contrary.'

I thought this was really quite accurate and resonated with my own experiences.

I know two liars who I think sometimes believe what they are saying.
Other times they know they are lying and when caught get angry, deflect behaviour and blame others. But there have been times with some lies I think they maybe have a hint that once they've said it it's happened.

What I find even scarier is the worst of the two can lie and not a flicker on her face, as a result she's not someone I will ever trust again. And some of the lies are dangerous to others and unsafe for herself.

I think they actually believe it. I once knew a man who told the most stupid and outrageous lies that anyone with half a brain could see were nonsense. He claimed to be wealthy but clearly was not, claimed a high IQ but was clearly of average to below average intelligence, etc. I think he had told these lies so often that they had just become part of his internal narrative. I also have known a lot of men to lie about their height. I am five foot eight and I have had men who are my height and even shorter claim to be five ten. I find that so annoying because it is so clearly nonsensical.

DH believes his own shit.

Ex husband has always done this. He believes his own lies and comes across as very genuine.

I know 2 people who actually do have delusions - one is bipolar and the other ASD. Both would insist they are the best person for XYZ purely from ego. It could be anything. The ASD woman thinks she has the best feet in the world, she told me one day. The guy who is bipolar believes he should have been teaching his bio-chem class in high school, despite taking a non-science course. The more you challenge them the more they insist.

Yes, this is certainly the case for some people.

I remember reading somewhere that studies have shown some of these people can easily pass a lie detector test, whereas those who were told to tell lies, couldn't pass.

It is 100% not a mental health issue.

Yes - so many men do this! I am 5ft10 and the amount of men who say they are taller is astounding. I don't know how they think anyone can't see or why anyone would want to date someone who lied about something so obvious?

See, I would imagine the BPD guy saying this about someone else - the guy I know, if caught out in a lie, would then accuse the person who caught him of being BPD, in much the way this was written - it was them who couldn't admit they were wrong because clearly they ALSO have BPD.
It becomes a bit of a rabbit warren if you let it.

Thought distortions and perception distortions are not the same thing as lying.

In the case of the former, it’s usually due to childhood trauma which has resulted in long term difficulties in adulthood, including BPD/EUPD. In these cases, the person is experiencing events, conversations etc through the filters of their abusive experiences, which distorts them. It’s not conscious and is very confusing for the individual and everyone else as well, because what they are perceiving is not necessarily the same as what’s actually happened. It is NOT their fault, it is not conscious or deliberate, and it is possible to recover and overcome.

Thats totally different from someone knowingly saying something that is untrue, either for malicious reasons, to impress others, to avoid getting in trouble or to try and make themselves feel better. This might also have some roots in previous childhood experiences but it’s not the same thing. It. An also become habit so they find it hard to stop.