Believing own lies

[Jellyshoe]

AIBU in struggling to comprehend how people can genuinely believe their own bullshit. It's one thing to lie but another to actually think your version of events is the truth.

Is this level of delusion a sign of a mental health disorder?

Yes,I agree @Rinoachicken - an ex of mine outright lied to manipulate women, knew full well what he was doing and benefitted.

My two BPD and ASD friends have no idea how they sound at all. It is all plausible in their minds.

I’m pleased to hear it’s an actual thing and not just me 😂

oops - that was meant to reply to the post about the Mandela effect. Sorry

It's so annoying. My dad is like this. Every take he tells casts him as a witty hero.

I know most of them are ridiculously embellished or pure fiction. It's a shame as he's an old man now and I don't even really know the real him

At my wedding during his speech he told a completely made up story about me!

I've known two people with diagnosed bi-polar disorder, who absolutely bullshitted everything during their manic phases. They're really convincing - although once you've got your eye in, so to speak, you can reasonably suspect they're manic. They come across as gifted, enthusiastic, dynamic, and truly believe what they're saying. Both have persuaded investors to back their non-existent ventures.

I've also known a few delusional individuals. They believe they're telling the truth, too. They're easier to spot because most of what they're claiming is literally insane, but they're so emotionally invested in it that people often want to believe them. I think people with an interest in the paranormal can get swept along with their delusions, at least until they crash. The crashes are terrible, with extreme paranoia, suicide attempts, the lot.

Most personality disorders involve 'truthy' lies, as well. Even when they're switching from one fantasy to another, many of these people have a strong enough mental disconnect that they can believe several contradictory things at once, getting really upset or angry if you insist on pointing out the incongruence.

Pathological lying's a real thing, too, which counts as a mental disorder as far as I know. Then there are your common or garden bullshitters, manipulators and exaggerators, who could be coming from a place of insecurity and/or doing it for personal gain of one sort or another. Add in otherwise normal people who happen to be high on coke or some other substance, and you've got a whole lot of colourful liars!

People are just fascinating 😂 It's always best to assume we are NOT surrounded by sane, rational human beings!

My mother is a narcissist
She can lie,without blinking an eye
She's caused so much trouble for herself and others over the years
She really believes she's telling the truth because its come out of her mouth

I remember babysitting a friends child years ago and I dropped him off with his dad
My mother knew I'd had him and went running round telling everyone I'd slagged dad off
It wasn't true at all-id dumped and ran-i barely spoke to dad beyond a 'hello' but she really believed she was telling the truth as she'd come up with a whole story in her head and once it was out of her mouth,she couldn't backtrack (why would she?it was true in her head)
It was easily sorted out but it caused a lot of trouble at the time

Another time she claimed that lady A was shagging man B
It wasn't true but man B's wife was told (by my mother) and it almost broke up their marriage
Mother come up with the idea in her head (she'd seen lady A talking to man B totally innocently so they must have been shagging) so told the local gossip,who told the wife and my mother acted shocked when she heard and claimed it was the first she'd heard of this
Even though she'd started it

Many many more stories but that's the idea

In her case,it's the narcissism that causes it

My mother is also like that. Some of it is a defence mechanism, she always has to be right, and the hero or victim of the story. Some of it is paranoia - seeing connections where there aren't any and filling in the gaps.
She has told the most outrageous lies that don't have a shred of truth in them, and I'm not sure she has a concept of 'truth' that is linked to reality. Once she has decided something is 'true', it becomes fixed in her mind, like a story.

As Dad drummed into us - I hate lies and liars.

Having fought the nhs to tell the truth at £195 recently I deem it money well spent.

No reason exists to have been lied to on the 4th March 2024. In fact it only serves to wonder what else was lied about.

I think people tell themselves the stories they need to to maintain their narrative.

One friend of DHs outright lies about the most random things. Eg he had an affair with a very well known older female politician. He needs to believe he's enigmatic and leads a glamorous life (he is, but not for the reasons he thinks). It does us no harm, so we humour him.

My in laws need to belive that they're entirely in service to everyone, no one could live without them, and their life is incredibly hard. They say things like "Oh, we so wish that we could stick to our commitment (to do the thing we suggested in the first place) but everything is sooo hard and we just can't possibly manage it".

No. These are choices. You've had a change of heart, or a better offer, and don't want to. That's fine, but own it. That kind of dishonesty is harmful, because I no longer trust their promises and neither does my 8 yr old.

It's the lies people tell themselves that are the most damaging IMO.

Yes it’s a bit like the discussions on here sometimes. Have definitely seen one in the past where person A thinks their new job offer has an amazing salary/package but is debating if it's worth an extra commute or whatever and someone will think it's really rubbish and not worthwhile as they are comparing to their own package. Also the occasional person who seems to genuinely believe they are worse off earning £50/60k than someone on benefits.

Distinguishedsocialcommentator

It does hurt though. If your being repeatedly lied too it's really hurts and affects your relationship and how you feel about the person. You question your own memory and response and you never trust them again.
Lying hurts and I cannot bear liars and hope I've done enough to ensure my now young adults don't like lies either.

Never did me any harm.🤐

Actually, it might have done. Well a little bit, anyway. 🤔

Only you can decide. The liars I met at work, my approach was never to tke them too seriously but give them the benefit of the doubt.

I will choose who to have long conos with and who not, therefore its my choice to engage fully or not. You have the same choice

One of the big ones I see regularly is the "I deserve the best" lie.

Sounds really harsh, but no, you really don't. The average person is average at best... and unless you offer something of value (and when you really get down to the nitty-gritty, you more than likely DON'T), you're not worth anything.

Confidence is great, but delusion holds you back. I see it all the time on here pertaining to 'unsuccessful dating' posts. You have A-Z requirements in another person and honestly believe you deserve that, when you only offer A-C...

That isn't a lie in the way that this thread means, though. 'I deserve the best' in that context just means that someone won't put up with subpar treatment, or someone who won't commit to them. I don't think that only people who are exceptional in some way deserve love and decent treatment. Maybe framing it as 'deserving the best' is a bit hyperbolic, but I would take that over accepting poor treatment.

🤪

My sister is a pathological liar, and I believe a narcissist. We’re very much no contact - mostly because of her insane lies. She always lied, excessively, compulsively since childhood. I’d be like erm I was just there with you, that “hilarious” thing did not happen!!

As we got older, it got more sinister, and she’d turn on people who caught her out in her bullshit. She’d get caught out being duplicitous, and then that person would then get retroactively fitted out with an entirely new backstory of lies. She’d always hated them, they’re mental, they’re evil, they did this or that and she never liked them anyway. It’s all just her nasty way of allowing no questions, no confrontation - she’d rip you to pieces and make up terrifying lies. I confronted her a few times about doing this to her very nice and understanding friends, and would get the full wrath.

It was only when I told her something about her disgusting partner (who was openly and clearly violent and abusive) that she turned on me so throughly, that I was done. If she’d always been lovely, but in that relationship he’d made her something she wasn’t, I’d have tried to salvage things. But she was always edging on sociopathic behaviour since I was literally a toddler. There was nothing to save. She’s the worst of the worst. One friend pissed her off and she, in a fit of rage, accused her friend’s child of being a sexual abuser. Came up with a whole scenario. When this was disputed, by me, she was like well she (friend) doesn’t need to know that - and laughed! The friend’s child was back round playing within weeks. When I said ‘hold on, you accused that child of sexual abuse!!’ She just said oh yeah we’ve got past that, she shouldn’t have been a bitch to me and I wouldn’t have said it. When people ask why I don’t speak to my sister, I just say she’s a pathological liar so I can’t be around her.

I’ll never speak to her again. I dread what’d happen if my mum dies, my sister is the golden child but also does fuck all and doesn’t do anything for my mum. Lots of instagram gushing posts, that type of bullshit, but would never actually do anything nice. My mum thinks the sun shines out of her arse, and thinks she’s like a delicate empath who feels too much or some such. Growing up never being taken seriously about how nasty she was, was pretty crap. You feel like you don’t know which way is up, and she turns so rapidly, you’re never safe.

@EverybodyLTB I'm sorry to hear that and it sounds so familiar. It is hard when you are on the receiving end of a pathological liar.

Jellyshoe yes and now I find even a white lie very triggering. If one of my children lies about something small, I feel myself going on a big rant about integrity. I can’t abide lying now and never do it unless it’s pretty much life or death.

I was married to a covert narcissist for 25 years. His whole life was a lie, our whole marriage was a sham, it was the most awful, awful thing. It was down to his childhood where he wasn't allowed to be himself, he had to be what his mum wanted in order to be loved, he was also taught to lie to everyone else so they didn't know what was going on within the family as one of his siblings was very unwell. He learnt that lying was safer and living a life of pretend was better - and the only way to be sure that other people would like and accept you.

He had no genuine self esteem and so needed constant ego boosting from other people, anyone who was vaguely nice to him he became obsessed with. At the same time he deluded himself that he was perfect in every way, better than other people and extremely gorgeous, and didn't understand why other people didn't realise it - obviously because there was something wrong with them. He was never in the wrong and never to blame for anything - his self esteem couldn't cope with it. He could also just cut people out his life without a second thought, no empathy and no remorse. No depth, no personality of his own, just mirroring other people and being what he thought they wanted him to be. Very sad and disturbing.

In his case the lying and delusions were very much part of a mental health disorder.

@EverybodyLTB
She’d get caught out being duplicitous, and then that person would then get retroactively fitted out with an entirely new backstory of lies. She’d always hated them, they’re mental, they’re evil, they did this or that and she never liked them anyway.

There's a name for that - its called 'dissonance reducing behaviour' (an activity used to lessen tension or feelings of discomfort and unease). I think narcs and compulsive liars do it a lot. Its easier for them to re-write history than live with the fact they were wrong.

Very thought provoking. My DH ex wife has been on a slander campaign for the last decade. I just can't believe that 10 years on she is STILL making up tales and repeating the usual ones word for word like a mantra. This was the point I made about embedding something into memory through repetition. The stories are so out there that is is frightening but what is scarier still is the level of absolute conviction with which she tells them.

I have tried to gain some insight and sympathise because she was diagnosed with BPD. I can imagine it is a very difficulty condition to live with if it has caused genuine delusions, however, it is also very difficult when someone with NPD/EUPD have their vitriolic rhetoric aimed at you.