My car was hit by a lorry. Who is at fault here?

[Trexraaa]

I approached a junction with a lorry waiting at it. I thought the lorry was going right due to its positioning on the road. I know they have to go wide but this guy was literally in the middle of the road. He wasn’t indicating. I’m going left so I pull up on the left side of the junction where I am now side by side with the lorry. I am stationary and checking left and right for a gap to go. The lorry then decides to go left and crashes into the side of my car. I must have been in his blind spot for him not to see us. That’s my car written off but at least we are all ok. Am I at fault?

Give other road users space. Large vehicles may need more than the allocated lane markings. Other road users may be unsure of what they're doing, or being plain daft, but if you give space, you've got more chance to respond and correct what's going on safely. You can't change other road user's behaviour, but you can change yours.

The first clip on this video is a minor swipe by a lorry. There are regular collisons at this junction and some have been fatal when more vulnerable road users have been involved. Ashley Neal has a lot of focus about planning so you're not in the same space at the same time as other road users.

A few months ago I was at slip roads/ roundabout that were quiet other than a truck. There was something about his positioning that rang alarm bells that he wasn't confident about where he was going, so I hung well back, and just as well as he ended up in every lane before U-turning back in the direction he came from. It wasn't good driving on his part, but it was incident free because there were no other road users in the way.

No one is a perfect driver, but space turns errors into non-events. Reflecting on incidents and adapting your driving style to avoid repeats is good driving.

so why wider at the junction, it not for it to become two lanes?

You'd think someone in a smaller, more vulnerable vehicle, would have the decency not to drive up the blind side of a lorry.

It has no markings. It is one single lane whether or not people use it as two to make the junction less congested.

Lorry drivers straddle lanes to make a point to other drivers: stay back, I need the space.

If you see one spread over the middle of a lane, just treat it as if there were cars occupying both lanes. It adds no time to just wait behind them til they're out your way.

You sound incredulous that "this guy was literally in the middle of the road", when this is standard for lorry drivers at junctions/roundabouts. If they need the space, they need the space.

At what stage you sunded your horn

Just put this down as a lucky experience and be careful around lorries. I had a bad experience on the motorway when I first started driving when I drove alongside a lorry in heavy rain and saw it indicating because I was in the blind spot.

I'm pleased you're OK. You're not an idiot, it's not very nice people calling you that. You'll know for next time to be more cautious around lorries and give them space. If it was just 2 cars and they were indicating then you could go beside them to turn the opposite way if there's space like there is on that road.

I nearly go taken out by a lorry once who turned into my lane, I must have been in his blind spot. It was very scary, so I can imagine this was frightening.

Actually in the Highway Code updates in 2022 rule H1 introduced The concept of a hierarchy of road users who should pay more care to protect more vulnerable road users. So cyclists to pedestrians, motorbikes to cyclists, cars to motorbikes, and probably then lorries to cars. Not your fault, he’s the one who weighs a ton and is taking up too much space. I bet all these other commenters would blame you if you were on a bike and a car hit you to be honest

To give space for larger vehicles to manoeuvre at the junction?

You are totally at fault, regardless of which way he was going you don't have the right or right of way to drive up his inside. What the hell were you thinking???

Taking up too much space? The lorry couldn't somehow become smaller because it was at a junction.

The hierarchy of road users doesn't give people carte blanche to do ridiculous things either.

She drove up the inside along his blind spot. How was he meant to see her?

I bet the Highway Code covers not doing that!

What a bloody stupid comment. He's taking up "too much space" because he has to.

If a lorry is straddling lanes, stay behind them. They're doing it for good reason for Christ sake. He can't magically make himself see the OP.

They weren’t straddling anything. They were in the middle of a wider than normal single lane.

It was a one lane road, he was utilising the space as best as possible. There was no second lane so a car shouldn’t have been driving on the inside of him. The lorry driver was within the confines of the road, not taking up too much space.

Doesn't matter who's fault it is if you wind up dead

I do hope you're found to be at fault for such stupid driving. Being newly passed isn't an excuse. Could this affect the lorry drivers job/insurance even though it was entirely avoidable if you hadn't have acted irresponsibly?

@Itsaloadofbollocksbut

All the more reason for OP to stay back

I see people make silly mistakes/have near misses on the road every day.

You were unlucky to learn this lesson the hard way.

From the nasty comments on this thread, you'd think no one else had ever made a mistake.

Sounds like it would have been avoidable if he'd been indicating. Good luck sorting the insurance etc out.

I'm would say you were at fault for effectively undertaking him. Especially given it's a lorry and it's unlikely he would see you.

He was at fault for not indicating.

I suspect you will be found at fault here.
Or maybe a split 70/30 or similar.

I get what you mean I have pulled alongside a car that's pulled to the right and indicating right before. As far as I'm aware it's allowed but not a smart move with a lorry.

Ok, so take the road below. It's narrow, single lane and had a habit of getting backed up. Cars often park at the side so most of the time you can't even get movement in both directions. At the myth of it, it opens into a very wide, but unmarked triangle.

Lane markings or not, it turns into two lanes at the mouth, and that's exactly what everybody does.

Are you saying that everyone should wait single file at that junction? Even though doing so would significantly impede traffic in and out of the junction and the road behind?

Junctions that open out and people naturally split into lanes happens up and down the country everywhere. I've literally got one either end of my road. No lane markings but it is universally used in the way I've indicated.

Ps: obviously a lorry is a different situation. I'm taking about cars.

Indeed.

You always have to indicate.

Always.

And that includes even if you think nobody else is around. Apart from anything else, pedestrians may be relying on your indicators.

From the nasty comments on this thread, you'd think no one else had ever made a mistake

That's just typical MN-sanctimony.

I do think going up the inside of big vehicles is madness though. I wasn't being nasty about it, I just think it's incredibly dangerous.