To ask the amount of effort needed to get into the medical profession

[JustRoseDreamer]

Yr 11 dd wants to but is not sure if it is worth it. She is also not sure what exactly she needs to do to get in.

That's interesting re; top students avoiding medicine and seems to be true in my dc school. The really academic high fliers (around 30 out of a cohort of 200 - all 9's at GCSE and predicted mostly 4 A stars) have, mostly, opted for Maths, law and computer sciences at Oxbridge and other top uni's. Very few in this group opting for Medicine but a couple going for dentistry.

There are far more in the next cohort down for Medicine, still very bright kids though but it's interesting how aspirations are changing.

I've just been listening to James O Brien on LBC this morning discussing why doctors are off to Australia. Situation sounds pretty awful in the uk but they're valued a lot more in Australia/NZ.

@Turmerictolly doctors are angry as their pay has declined by 35% over the last 10 years (in real terms). £15.33 an hour is not a great starting salary after 5/6 years of Uni. It's not a job for everyone and many of the bright students will be looking and thinking, no. If no longer has the cache to say I'm a doctor for them, or their parents.
Conditions are rubbish, government seem to hate them for some reason. Not just Australia who are poaching them (although Aus and NZ have been very proactive in recruiting young British doctors). It's scary stuff as these are the consultants of the future - we won't have any in a few years if this continues.

BUT, all students who get into medicine are v bright. Not sure what 'the brightest' means. Best grades ? Depends on subject, teaching time, life outside school, class size etc.

This is what I am saying and was the case when I left school in the 2000s.

It’s not that students who study Medicine aren’t bright - goodness knows you need to be intelligent to get through all those exams - it’s that the brightest, crème de la creme of students in any school (and we all know who they are) are not opting for medical school the way they might have done in the 1970s, and are instead studying pure Sciences, Economics, Law, History, PPE etc. at top universities and getting onto the elite graduate schemes.

And those 'high flyers' with a loo top grades might not have the other skills required for medicine. You won't get in these days with just good grades.

@Usernamen can you define a 'crème de la crème' student for me. Do you just mean academically, so people who can get A stars in exams ? As a teacher I have many of those students, but I also have many who I think will be more successful in their chosen fields, as they shine in other ways.

My most successful ever student is now a v v v v rich plumber. Useless at exams but the hardest working person I've ever met, with innate intelligence and people skills.

So what is success I suppose. To me it's being happy in yourself and in your chosen career. Money is nice but not everything. Exams are great, but not everything (& I'm a teacher 😊).

The LBC phone in was a real eye opener- parents of med students plus young doctors themselves detailing their experiences. It's good that poor working conditions in the Uk are now being exposed but, sadly, the reputation of the profession is becoming tarnished. It definitely doesn't bode well for the future of all of us as you say.

Dc considered it for a few months but his heart wasn't in it. I'm glad really he didn't go for it as it's a huge amount of effort with no guarantees at any stage.

@Turmerictolly I really hope the doctors make people listen as otherwise the NHS is finished and privatised companies will win.

It always amazes me that the people who denigrate doctors are v vocal- until they need one. The PA experiment seems to be back firing very quickly. And consultants who have supported it, to the detriment of their own trainees, are taking some flak. As they should.

Let our doctors work and train, as they always have. Pay them, stop making them rotate so much, treat them well and they will stay.

My niece is a doctor, and it was the right choice for her - but as interested observer, I was staggered by how long the process of becoming "fully fledged" is.
I was a teacher, and all too aware of the hard word entailed in getting into medical school academically and with the voluntary work experience needed. I also knew that gaining a medical degree is no easy ride, but had little idea of how many years following that would entail yet more study and examinations, and sometimes arbitrary moves to other parts of the country.
She would be well advised to follow up some of the links given by PP's, and as they rightly said, it has to be her doing the research.

Not all med students are the very top performing but they do have to be clever and dedicated. My DS’s friends who are at med school did not achieve AAA at A level, that is why they chose the biomed route. This Morning’s dr Zoe also said she took this route due to not achieving the right A level results.

@JustRoseDreamer , I agree with @Stompythedinosaur if your daughter lacks the motivation to find out the answers to the questions you’re asking she’s highly unlikely to gain a place to study medicine. Competition for places is tough and just having excellent grades won’t impress the med schools, everyone has excellent grades. Med school is tough and long. Competition for junior doctor jobs is tough and the pay is crap. Exams are cripplingly expensive and ongoing. The hours are hideous and often antisocial. Please get your DD to do some research. Good luck!

The effort is manageable if you really want to do it. I wouldn’t write the op’s daughter off just because she hasn’t properly looked into it yet. Everyone starts somewhere.

Tom Swarbrick on LBC also discussing doctors prospects right now.

Medic Mentor is overpriced nonsense.
Both my daughters are doing Med. Get 3 or 4 A's (preferably A*) at A Level, to include Chem and Bio. Score as close (or over) 3000 in the UCAT. Write a decent personal statement and be nice at the interview. That's pretty much it. With good predicted grades and a 3000-ish score in UCAT, you'll be called to interview at all four joints. Not getting an offer from at least two means you showed up naked to the interview and started shouting in Swahili. It's just about academics. That's all it takes to get a slot. The rest is just conversation.
Don't waste your money on MM.

Don't really need all that. 3 As and a decent (2700h UCAT ) will easily get you 4 interviews. Strategy when applying is the plan - lowest UCAT that has offer so far this year at my school is 2560.

However be aware of the state of medicine as many doctors facing unemployment this year. Yes, you heard that right. While the NHS suffers hideous waits and endless waiting lists, we also let our trained doctors be unemployed 🤷‍♀️