Are my DC broken?

[sparklyrainbowunicorndancing]

Two DC, ages 9 and 6.

Neither come looking for a parent when we are out and another child upsets them. They’re more likely to get into a fight.

My youngest doesn’t come running to a parent if they hurt themselves, they just stand and shout and cry.

Both come out with filthy and inappropriate language daily. They will call each other dumb, idiot, moron, say shut up. DH and I have told them off countless times for this, very firmly and seriously. It’s forgotten the next day.

They also both often act really silly and over the top in front of other people. Youngest will say totally stupid things but that are actually inappropriate- willies, bums etc. My eldest has learned a lot of swear words in the last year and will take any opportunity to talk about a time when X said “the F word/S word”. (Grateful they don’t actually say the full words at least). This one does pick up a lot from school and friends with older siblings, but they relish anything that’s remotely inappropriate and will keep coming back to it.

I just don’t see other kids acting like this. We are a nice family, DH and I are good people, we don’t swear or use words like idiot, shut up in front of them. It’s seriously embarrassing.

I know people will ask “what are the consequences…” etc. I don’t see the point in giving completely unrelated consequences (such as loss of screens) unless it’s something VERY serious, but they get pulled up every time, told off firmly everytime, I have explained to the older one in particularly that his friend’s parents will hear him say these things, and they won’t invite him on play dates or want their children to play with him. I’ve explained to them that they are getting older and there’s serious consequences for bad behaviour the older they grow.

They don’t watch YouTube or have access to tablets. DC1 does have a Switch and plays games that have violent undertones I suppose, but they’re age appropriate - Super Mario, Sonic, Lego Marvel. They watch things that again do have fighting but age appropriate- mainly Lego Ninjago or Lego Superheroes, and Sonic. I’ve banned films like Home Alone but I’ve been surprised how much unpleasant language eg shut up, idiot, is in films like Toy Story!

Nothing works.

Maybe it's just because they know they'll get a reaction out of you, there isn't always a reason for everything

They are probably looking for a reaction from you. They are words that they have learnt that have this amazing effect on some adults and so they are trying them out. You have made them incredibly interesting.

If you are really bland and boring about them they will move on. Tell them that they will get in trouble if they use those words in school (important that they know that). Give them correct but dull definitions. If they are using them in front of other parents, don’t hang around chatting in the playground as they are probably bored and do it to get attention.

Telling a sibling to shut up and that they are being an idiot is not something that I would worry about too much, especially if the sibling is being annoying. It is a such common consequences of being irritating to people that you are probably fighting a losing battle.

I totally agree with you. My youngest made up a song all about willies and taught it to his cousins. I'm impressed at the rhyming and the creativity!
But fighting is a no, no.

Boys shouting about willies and fighting is not normal? OK....

Yes to usual parenting but this is typical child behaviour.

We also have two boys that are exactly the same as you describe. Ours are slightly younger.

We praise them when good, correct when naughty. They still just carry on in the same way.

I'm often at a loss as to what causes their behaviour as they also will never shy away from a confrontation etc.

I've spoken to many friends who are parents about this and in our circle at least it definitely seems to be a boy thing.

Ours do seem to be improving slightly as they age but it's very tiring a lot of the time

I have to say none of it sounds unfamiliar to me, or particularly shocking. Wearisome and tedious, yes! But vicarious swearing by way of "Teddy said the F word" is perennially popular, and getting in a fight rather than running to your parents is sometimes the best way to defeat your foe. Verbal warfare with your siblings is also normal.

The only part I would stress about is the inappropriate stuff from the 9 year old, because he is getting too old for that, and old enough to understand that although it gets a reaction, it will soon be very much the wrong reaction. So I would sit down and explain the need not to be a creepy weirdo - if he genuinely can't understand that, you may have a social communicator lem there. But I'm sure he will be moving on to some equally irritating shit any time now anyway 🙄.

You sound like a lovely primary school teacher with actual understanding and compassion for children of different (developing) characters. 💙

If you suspect ND then it is quite a different way of parenting and I’d get them assessed tbh!

It makes sense with them not ‘learning’ as that way isn’t working for them

This! 👆
My take on inappropriate behaviour has always been, socially unacceptable behaviour results in social isolation. It’s true isn’t really? Because if we behave in a way that makes others uncomfortable then they won’t want to be around us. So when your boys attention seek in front of others with inappropriate words/behaviours, then put them in a time out - no matter where you are or who is there! Explain why.

I have two boys the same age. My 9yo in particular I have struggled with backchat and rudeness with him. I have to have very clear instructions and a consequence if he carries on which I then have to follow through with every time. If I give an inch he will take a mile. So for example i would say if he's rude again that day then no Minecraft for the rest of the day. I limit screen time and they lose time for bad behaviour and can earn more with good behaviour.

They are obsessed with fart, willy and bum talk so I put a boundary in place. They are not allowed to talk about it in public places or at the dining table. This means they can chat about it and be silly at home and it gets it out of their system.

The fighting is a bit concerning and I would come down hard on physical fighting. My two know that physical fighting is not allowed. I am working on impulse control with them and using words to express how they feel. This is a work in progress. If they are playing and one of them is getting carried away, they need to stop if one of them says stop. My 6yo is going through a phase of trying to grab his brother's willy 🙄 so I have to keep a strict eye on him and intervene.

I go a bit OTT if they are particularly kind or behave nicely and say how lovely it is and well done for behaving well etc. I am also strict with basic manners like asking for things nicely, saying please and thank you, asking to get down from the table. All of these things have an effect.

My 9yo in particular is most likely to be silly if he is bored and needs a good run around. For example I took them to soft play for a good 2/3 hours one day over the Christmas holidays because we were going for a big family dinner after and I needed them to be chilled. I have to have realistic expectations of what he can manage. I have often suspected some neurodiversity but he'd never get referred and I can't afford a private assessment so I'm watching and waiting at the moment.

I have to have basic consequences that I can think of quickly because I struggle a bit with knowing what to say in the moment, I always have. So things like no more screen time is an easy thing that comes to mind. As for going in one ear and out the other, this is normal. I read something recently by a mum who said that every day she reminded her children to rinse out their lunchboxes and it took 3 months until they did it without being told to. Repetition and consistency is key imo.

This is so bizarre. Why are you so bothered and fixated on the word willies and it being bad?! It is just a part of their body. Bodily functions and the part of anatomy they come from are funny to children and when they realise they can get a reaction they do it more. Why is bum okay and willie is not? You need to reflect on your own views and why you think it's such a taboo word.

It's worth pointing out though that kids with adhd / autism maybe can say words like this repetitively and sometimes it sticks like an ocd habit, this is my experience right now unfortunately.

Same! Absolutely only thing is ignoring and focusing on other more positive behaviours.

I could have written this!

Thank you.

Yes I’m the same about the boundary - a PP has said it’s either a boundary or it’s not, which I disagree with as it’s one thing to let DC let off steam being silly and hyper at home, another thing to let it happen in public. We had a big chat yesterday about what we can do in public. My 9 year old does know full well, I think he just has impulse control, forgets in the moment and is so concerned with appearing cool/funny. I know he thinks it’s important to be funny in order to be liked.

I listen to Dr Becky Good Inside a lot who essentially says that the reason children behave a certain way is because they don’t have the skills to cope better yet, which is why consequences are pointless. I am going to try and mix this up a bit though, DC1 has always responded well to immediate rewards so there’s something i can try there.

Both my DC have very good manners and are kind and caring so I know I’m doing something right at least.

I don’t see the point in giving completely unrelated consequences (such as loss of screens) unless it’s something VERY serious, but they get pulled up every time, told off firmly everytime

But they obviously don't care if they get told off. So it's not working.

You need to impose real consequences or they'll just whatever they want because they get more enjoyment etc from the silly behaviour - its worth risking the telling off.

I listen to Dr Becky Good Inside a lot who essentially says that the reason children behave a certain way is because they don’t have the skills to cope better yet, which is why consequences are pointless.

Yeah but this is bollocks op, you know it is. Your 9 year old has the skills not to behave like this, its just harder for them or "less fun", they don't want to. If being silly becomes less fun because it results in loss of screens etc then you will find it stops soon enough.

Not sure why my 6 month old thread has been revived!

I can’t remember how it happened but I absolutely succeeded in drumming into both DC that telling each other to shut up and calling each other idiot and other horrible names is unacceptable, as it has most definitely stopped. We might have the odd shut up to each other occasionally but I act aghast and they look sheepish and apologise.

Youngest is still very reactive and if someone hits or pushes him, will do the same back. I am hopefully, slowly getting it into him that he must TELL rather than retaliate physically. It’s hit and miss. Don’t think my eldest has gotten into a fight recently!

Skills wise I don’t think they do have some of the skills due to poor impulse control.
not sure how to fix that.

Maybe they are slowly learning how to be proper people. Suspect both are ND.