Are my DC broken?

[sparklyrainbowunicorndancing]

Two DC, ages 9 and 6.

Neither come looking for a parent when we are out and another child upsets them. They’re more likely to get into a fight.

My youngest doesn’t come running to a parent if they hurt themselves, they just stand and shout and cry.

Both come out with filthy and inappropriate language daily. They will call each other dumb, idiot, moron, say shut up. DH and I have told them off countless times for this, very firmly and seriously. It’s forgotten the next day.

They also both often act really silly and over the top in front of other people. Youngest will say totally stupid things but that are actually inappropriate- willies, bums etc. My eldest has learned a lot of swear words in the last year and will take any opportunity to talk about a time when X said “the F word/S word”. (Grateful they don’t actually say the full words at least). This one does pick up a lot from school and friends with older siblings, but they relish anything that’s remotely inappropriate and will keep coming back to it.

I just don’t see other kids acting like this. We are a nice family, DH and I are good people, we don’t swear or use words like idiot, shut up in front of them. It’s seriously embarrassing.

I know people will ask “what are the consequences…” etc. I don’t see the point in giving completely unrelated consequences (such as loss of screens) unless it’s something VERY serious, but they get pulled up every time, told off firmly everytime, I have explained to the older one in particularly that his friend’s parents will hear him say these things, and they won’t invite him on play dates or want their children to play with him. I’ve explained to them that they are getting older and there’s serious consequences for bad behaviour the older they grow.

They don’t watch YouTube or have access to tablets. DC1 does have a Switch and plays games that have violent undertones I suppose, but they’re age appropriate - Super Mario, Sonic, Lego Marvel. They watch things that again do have fighting but age appropriate- mainly Lego Ninjago or Lego Superheroes, and Sonic. I’ve banned films like Home Alone but I’ve been surprised how much unpleasant language eg shut up, idiot, is in films like Toy Story!

Nothing works.

No

In general I agree with you about the natural consequences thing, but I think it’s ok to tie some privileges to desired behaviours. With my similarly aged kids I remove 1 and 5 min blocks of screen time, and make them go and play or do something else with their (eg) 8 min loss when their sibling starts screen time, or the time that they ask for it. Currently our thing is expecting them to do what’s being asked without us having to ask multiple times. After the first ignored ask they get warned that minutes are about to be lost. They can earn them back too.

I think lots was wrong with the heavily behavioural modification approaches of the past, but I don’t think it’s all bad. Life is about rewards for getting with the programme!

And ps, my almost 6yr old loves talking about bums and poo etc. I am really inconsistent in managing this as really it doesn’t bother me much, but I recognise some people don’t like to hear it and some of her friends get upset when she calls them ‘poo poo stink’! I just think of this as normal development at that age.

Apart from your first two points (mine don’t get in fights and come to me when they’re upset), they sound exactly like mine. Obsessed with swear words, call each other (and me) rude names, say shut up. Similar ages. I feel you. Plenty of punishments and consequences and talking to them about it and positive praise for other stuff etc. But I suppose I’m just wet and weak or whatever it was a PP called you

Yeah the poo bum wee stage will pass. I used to think my now-six year old was some sort of a weirdo such was her obsession but she’s past it now!

I don’t mind poo and bums as much as I mind willies! It doesn’t bother me at home just messing around with each other and I do try and let them let off steam at home, but it’s a time and a place isn’t it and in public on school grounds in front of other parents isn’t the place to say hey I just punched my willy!

@ChickpeaPie sympathies. Mine never start fights but they will retaliate if picked on (I keep trying to drum in that they should just come and tell, I’d much rather they were tell tales than get involved) and my eldest who I do think has ADHD has a very strong sense of justice and will sometimes get in fights because he’s standing up for a friend who’s getting picked on.

The silly comments get your attention so they'll keep doing them. Sorry!

As pp said, although you don't think there's a need for consequences, you actually do need to implement that because you have got into a cycle of just talking at them which frankly they're not taking on board. They are just tuning your voice out because they've figured out it's meaningless (meaningless as in has no impact in reality, no consequences. Kids are very literal). Make your response meaningful TO THEM and you'll see behavioural change.

But first decide if you even give enough of a shit about the specific behaviours, because you seem undecided if this is a boundary or not. If you're only shushing them on the playground because you're worried what other parent will think when actually you don't care, do everyone a favour and just admit to yourself it's not a boundary. But if you decide yes, this is a boundary, then it's consequences every time until they cease altogether. Be consistent and get OH on board too.

I have 2 boys both with ASD. And they never swear. Always behave so well. They get praised a lot because they behaving well.

i’m asian mum. I’m strict, very strict. You have to put consequences for that kind of behaviour. One time my oldest swear while playing playstation. I immediately stop him playing and he cant play for a week. Just for 1 swear word. We dont tolerate swear words at all. And he never swear again.

PS. You should be teaching your kids to stand up to bullies. If we all did that the world would be a better place

My advice is to introduce a rewards system where you can earn extra points for helping etc and loose points for behaviour that you are trying to eliminate. These points could be for individual pocket money or privileges eg my dc needed to earn 100 stars between them to go to Alton towers when they were a similar age to yours, they have never been so well behaved!

I am truly staggered by how many posters feel that from a 9 year old “willy” is “disgusting language” and that saying it is “foul behaviour” 😱I would suggest that if you are concerned you should ask the school teacher if it is developmentally appropriate for the age. (It is!)

My kids are teens now but there certainly used to be plenty of their peers obsessed with willy/bum/pee and alluding to swear words “the f word”, “the s word” but not the actual word itself. All absolutely normal and age appropriate IMO.

I suspect they are only doing it in front of other parents for the additional shock value. It gets a reaction out if you. Try literally rolling your eyes and telling them not to be silly, “it’s not big and it’s not clever” rather than having a shocked or embarrassed reaction.

The one thing that concerns me is you saying they are getting into fights.

My sisters kids of almost identical ages are exactly like this. With her what I notice mostly is she is very shouty so that for her children isn’t a deterrent it’s now their normal mode of communication. Everyone shouts at everyone and there is no volume control.

Something else I find remarkable about my sisters two children is that they are never TOLD assertively what is what - they are pleaded with in a very wishy washy manner. Kids know when you don’t mean it I find. She has an excuse for every bad behaviour they have. I think both kids have insecure attachments with her. (That’s true of her two children - I’m not suggesting the same is true of your little ones).

If it’s not too late I would say be ‘horrified’ at their bad behaviours as in be ‘disappointed’ (how your old school teacher might have been) don’t meet them with anger or at their level. Bring them your best calm assertive self.

With the showing you up in front of people - I would call it out. Something like: I see you’re showing off because Nanny is here. She’s not impressed by that behaviour and nor am I. Come back when you’re ready to be pleasant thank you. Then when they are being lovely remember to praise the living daylights out of it. - and be genuine like: Mummy is so grateful you were so helpful today. You were so kind. It made the day really lovely.

My elder 2 were pretty good and I say this having raised them alone but when they were demanding I would say: Mummy is also a person. Please remember that. I get tired as well and I get offended too. It’s good for them to know Mummy is an actual person with feelings.

I think foundations are important. We aren’t rude to each other because we are a family and we are a team and we love each other and if we do something wrong we apologise - even the adults. It’s sometimes good for them to know adults don’t always get it right either.

I am reading a book at the moment called there’s no such thing as naughty (it’s really interesting) it says that things such as empathy must be modelled and are not easily taught - sounds obvious but the way you treat children does determine the way they show up in the world and in turn treat you and each other.

I also once read something by Jordan Peterson. He says: don’t let your children do anything that makes you dislike them. He also says children are basically who they are going to be by age 5. So I’m not sure if any of what I’m saying is helpful. But those things sprung to mind for me.

Sometimes it’s worth remembering they need listening to. If they’re playing up it’s usually not about the thing they’re doing at that moment and sometimes they won’t have the words to tell you what they need. But if they know you’re there to listen they won’t be so inclined to demand attention in other ways.

I hope none of that is patronising. All children are different. My youngest is a baby so on paper I’m due a ‘naughty’ one 😉. I think the more calm and grounded you are, the more likely they are to mimic that.

I have 5 boys. You sound just like me.

Honestly, as the parent of two neurodivergent children (ASD & ADHD), I would absolutely be seeking referrals. This smacks to me of ADHD. The immaturity, the lack of impulse control, the interruptions, the lack of consideration of social norms. The repetition. The bum jokes. The showing of ie lack of social cues. Been there, been shamed, worn the T-shirt. It’s now holey.

Showing OFF.

I think if this is mainly silly showing off behaviour in front of schoolfriends/parents in the schoolyard at pick up/drop off, I would immediately move him away from the other people and say if you're going to be rude/silly/use bad language you will have to stand here on our own because other people don't want to be around that sort of behaviour. If you do this every time, hopefully they will get the message! You're right that consequences need to be immediate and relevant to the situation.

You seem to be expecting consequences to come from elsewhere, like 'other parents not inviting you' and 'later in life [there will be...]'. But you are the parent and need to stop hiding behind educational theories that are only applicable to toddlers. It is hard work and needs careful thought and rigorous implementation. Other posters have given some good ideas for systems that might work. Try one of them.

I agree. Your words are just background white noise to them now and they don't care. They know it'll just be the same again next time and it has no effect on them.

You need to start actually doing something they DO care about - screens, grounding, loss of pocket money, whatever will actually have an impact on them.

You're being ineffectual and will raise 2 very unpleasant humans unless you actually do some proper parenting.

My autistic daughter does this with annoying words and calling folk dumb stupid etc. Seems uncontrollable and she is pda. Won't listen etc can't seem to learn to stop it.

Consequences don't work especially with pda.

Am I reading the same post? Who cares if they say willy?
Since when is it not the age appropriate word for wee boys?

I couldn’t care less if someone wants to get upset about hearing the word. Okay, they’re boisterous and showing off. Are they hassling anyone? Making smaller/vulnerable children’s lives harder? If not, I think it’s good they sort their own stuff out and your older child displays moral leadership (namely, stepping in on behalf of others).

Wow that's so rude. OP sounds fair to me. There's lots of evidence that unrelated punishments don't work.

God forbid a child talks about willies and bums