Pensions… again

[GoodnightAdeline]

https://amp.theguardian.com/money/2024/apr/08/uk-state-pensions-benefits-changes-april-triple-lock-rise

Another pension increase we can’t afford when working people are grappling with the cost of the country.

What will be the endgame in all this? Where will we be in 20 years?

Exactly. There are many many people in London who bought average houses in their 20s or 30s, paying eye watering interest rates, at a time when many areas hadnt even started to gentrify and prices were not that much out of kilter with other parts of the country. When we bought our previous house, the interest rate went up to 18% in the two weeks between exchange and completion; admittedly it didn't stay that high for very long but we still had a long period of paying interest of 16%. Around 75% of our combined take home salaries went on our mortgage and rates. What are the people meant to do who are now retiring and living in £1m houses, which are often just average 3 bed semis? Should they be forced to downsize before receiving the state pension they've paid into all their working lives?

Ah so everybody should be on interest only mortgages or simply aim to not pay their mortgage off in order to keep a state pension. Sounds like great financial sense.😂

Or everybody should live in a cheap area. People won’t be able to move around for fear of triggering off losing their pension. Sounds great.

Pensioners might be the wealthier demographic but you need to analyse the actual breakdown.

The vast majority of pensioners just exist, if that , on a pension that is one of the lowest in Europe. Many Europeans have much higher pensions but have also endured much higher taxes including much higher local taxes.

"Prove we will be able to afford it? Any decent projection says we can’t."

No we can't. We have far too many people not working due to 'mental health issues, " sickness," " flexibility."
This doesn't really work in Europe.

Too many people claim benefits in the UK that are not even available in Europe.
That's because there's a working culture in Europe. It's seen as a shame to not work in Europe.

I agree that we can't afford pensions but that's because we, as a country, don't want to pay higher taxes, like they do in Europe!
But pensioners , today, have been falsely led to believe that National Insurance would fund their pensions.

In the early 90s I stopped working in my City job as there were no nursery places or wrap around care. My husband earned more than me so I stopped working. According to today's figures, I'd have received untold benefits.

We didn't.
We struggled and didn't have a holiday until my eldest was six years old. It was a week in a caravan.
We lived hand to mouth.

And yet I'm expected to give up my pension because I'm a sponger?

We can afford pensions by stopping funding for spurious medical reasons. There are multiple posts on MN where posters suggest signing off rather than work.

I'd like to see prescriptions means tested.
I'd like to see travel cards means tested.
I'd like to see families , taking their children out of school , absolutely hammered unless service personnel or extraneous circumstances.

And here's a thought... maybe charge tenants extra for getting free boiler changes/services, free maintenance, free decorating and free gardening?

I'm being flippant and angry but I look at my elderly mum , who pays the state to care for her care. Yet she was promised' from the cradle to the grave.'
She has no pot of riches.

Todays pensioners didn't get some hours of free childcare.
Todays pensioners weren't afforded the possibility of wrap around care.
Todays pensioners didn't have maternity rights.
Today's pensioners had to endure pension shortfalls due to caring... both men and women.

I don't like to burst your bubble OP, but you can make it as clear as you want, you can rant and rave all you want, you can put forward your wild theories all you want - but you have NO influence whatsoever so you might as well crawl back into your pit. 😂

Op, the state pension is funded today, by people paying national insurance. There is no pension pot like a private scheme. Therefore when you reach retirement age people born this year and next, and next rtf etc will pay your pension.

It is estimated that as a whole, pensioners will be worse off.
They will not benefit from the NI cut, as pensioners do not pay NI anyway.
They will be paying more tax, as pensions are taxable, and higher pensions mean that more will be drawn into paying tax, especially as the tax rate was not changed. (known as fiscal drag).
The Uk state pensions is considered the worse in Europe, and in my opinion, more people should be encourage to get additional company pensions, many of which were not able to do so, until pensions changes in the 1980s.

If the state pension was means tested there would be a disincentive for people to pay into occupational pension schemes. People have sacrificed income at a time of their life when they had mortgages and children to pay into private/occupational pensions. Why would they do this when it would just mean that they lost eligibility for the state pension. There are already some disincentives for saving. The very rich are okay, poorer people get their rent paid and pension credit, people with small private pensions are no better off for having them. Means testing would make things worse for people at the margins.

It tricky. On the one hand in can't be much fun living on £11.5 k.

On the other hand, the UK debt levels are going up every year. We are going to be so screwed in about 10-20 years time (assuming you don't think we are screwed now).

More ageist nonsense on mumsnet. The increase is in accordance with the current government's policy on indexation of the state pension.
As with any other policy, if you don't like it you can vote for someone else.

Yeah that’s what I said.

Well you haven’t said anything bar some vague nonsense amount house prices being used to means test.

So fire away, tell us how it’s going to work.

@Anonymouseposter

The very rich are okay, poorer people get their rent paid and pension credit, people with small private pensions are no better off for having them

Yes it seems that saving what you can seems pointless when you can get pension credit anyway. Also paying off a mortgage just means you have to pay for old age care as they expect you to sell it to pay care home fees. If you don't own a house then care home fees are presumably covered by the state.

Luckily most people prefer to pay off and own their home & pay into a private pension. Otherwise we would all need pension credit

I, as a NI payer don’t pay £11.5k per year. I pay £4k (higher rate). So you need AT LEAST 3x (high rate) workers for every pensioner, IF NI was used to only pay for pensions (which it doesn’t).

In 2020 there were 280 pensioners to 1000 workers, 2.8 pensioners being supported by 10 workers and the number of pensioners is going up. It’s very clear to see where the issue lies…

Since May 2019 they dont if they have a younger partner

I think this is where we need a huge cultural shift. Saving in your working life for a comfortable retirement and for your later life care should IMHO be a base level expectation. It’s for YOU at the end of the day!!

Are you ok? Who has been ranting?

And if those care workers did the same and all walked out of the job to go for a better one who would actually do the looking after in the care homes. It is people doing this so you dont have to who will need pension credit when they get older

AND YET..............some seem ok with having elderly relatives cared for by people they look on with contempt for having a low paid job!

Can someone explain pre 2016 rate to new rate? Why does pre 2016 people (especially couples) get so much less?

You’ve just contradicted yourself.

Yikes, that’s one hell of a mistake on your part.

That’s nice for you.

You should sell the house, IMO.

Excellent. You are doing the basics for your own children. Now can you answer my earlier question about what exactly you have done to improve the lot of your children's generation when they are adults? The things you seem to blame so-called 'Boomers' for not doing?

When you've pais 44 years of national insurance contributions and are still only getting about £900 per month to live on, come back with your moany mouth