Pensions… again

[GoodnightAdeline]

https://amp.theguardian.com/money/2024/apr/08/uk-state-pensions-benefits-changes-april-triple-lock-rise

Another pension increase we can’t afford when working people are grappling with the cost of the country.

What will be the endgame in all this? Where will we be in 20 years?

love the moniker, lol, reminds me of my Nan’s self describing, thanks

You know how politics works, right? The people getting the mist votes in each constituency get the seat then if they get the most seats that party governs? So if most people didn’t want the triple lock/decent pensions one of the major parties would probably say they didn’t support it? And yet they don’t…

It isn't my goal, but an apparent goal indirect goal of the government to increase state provision. I am not sure that the lack of private provision on the continent is a reason to suppress SP here in the UK.

I do think that there is a point that a theoretical triple locked SP becomes such a good deal that people stop making private provision as a result. Triple lock will need to go as soon as there is a sniff of that.

My view is that SP should provide survival level provision for those that are, at a population level, unable to work any more due to old age. Luxuries are for those that make provision in their working life, as the sacrifice of delayed gratification ultimately pays dividends. But the problem historically, is that SP hasn't even met survival thresholds given rents, food price inflation and so on and a few years of the uber-generous triple lock is slowly but surely bringing the SP to a reasonable level. But indefinite triple lock will dis-incentivise private provision and become unfair to the working taxpayer.

I really don't think that the triple lock pension is going to deter many people from making private pension provision if they are able to do so. I can't imagine anyone thinking that £221 per week will give them a luxurious standard of living!

£221 is enougn to keep a pensioner ticking over ? for food, utilities, clothing, etc.,

however does not allow for running a car, holidays, treating grandchildren, many
of the now perceived luxuries younger, more able working people take for granted.

It is astonishing how fast savings are eroded or indeed used to supplement a meagre pension.

How are pensioners without a private pension supposed to replace white goods,
carpet, boots, or yearly coach trip, hairdressers, bottle Baileys, birthday presents, etc etc without robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Private pension provision was not always possible, saving hard was the order of
the day for many people of modest means.

No, I’m sure it won’t. But the advantageous annual increases which are the best of 3 worlds, might, in time if left unchecked.

It always makes me laugh when people say "it's not fair, the government give pensioners what they want, because they're the ones who vote".

There is a simple solution to that, for the younger generations.......they could vote too! But no, they prefer not to, because....well actually I have no idea why. I presume the millions of non-voters have a reason. But you can't complain that the people who exercise their democratic right to vote are statistically more likely to get the government they want.

Agree, but the injustice is that income thresholds have been frozen, despite inflation running at 11% for quite a while.

Pensioners also have not benefited from NI cuts but have been hit by energy costs as they tend to use more (inside a lot more than working folk) and feel the cold a lot too.

So whilst it s ok that private pensions will be taxed, its not ok that the state pension is, also very inefficient too.

The state pension alone isn't enough to keep us ticking over. Our monthly direct debit for energy is £450 per month, council tax is nearly £300 per month, as well as all the other outgoings, so we will hardly be living in the lap of luxury on our pensions. However, we are fortunate in that we have paid off our mortgage, which was at interest rates which people of the OPs generation have never experienced.

@aLFIESMA

This thread has left me in tears, when I was young we were proud to think our OAPs would be able to have a nice warm retirement. Meal out once a week, coach trip in the summer and pair of good winter boots

what country have you been living in?

10s of '000s used to die from the cold every winter, still do but a lesser extent.

Pensioner poverty has always been a thing in the UK, meals on wheels first done to try an address it.

The UK makes a thing of talking about how it cares for pensioners (and veterans) whilst doing the exact opposite.

💯

Where on earth do you live where CT is £300 per month? or have you a mansion?

Same with energy.

Interest rates? really? i know your generation didn't have the best schooling available but 15% of 50k is many times less than 6% on 350k....

I agree. I have never missed voting in any General Election, local election, mayoral election, or referendum since I turned 18. I dont believe that anyone who doesn't vote has the right to complain about any government or political decision. Even if you spoil your ballot paper, everyone has a responsibility to at least turn out for an election.

Spoiling your ballot paper has to one of the most dumb ass things anyone could do.
You ve taken the time to go out and vote but then dont....
Its meaningless, not voting has more effect as no party wants to have to justify why they won but on a low turnout.

There are usually plenty of parties from far left n right in between moderates and crazy ones, just go and vote for someone.

My council tax is 300 a month and I live in a 3 bed detached in a busy Hertfordshire town. It's a big-ish house but definitely not a mansion. 3 beds/2 baths, living room and kitchen/diner and a garage. Small garden.

Not surer where you live but we usually only have 3 canidates in a general election, two of whom have no hope of getting elected.

or as Billy Connolly insists, “don’t vote! it only encourages them!”

We usually only have three candidates in our local elections too, and I think it's still preferable to go to the pollling station and spoil your ballot paper if you really can't bring yourself to vote for any of the candidates than to not bother and then spend the next four or five years moaning about the decisions that are made.

a good post, reminds me of the horshoe nail -

For want of a nail the shoe was lost
For want of a shoe the horse was lost
For want of a horse the rider was lost
For want of a rider the message was lost
For want of a message the battle was lost
For want of a battle the Kingdom was lost
and all for the want of a horshoe nail

Out council tax is £300, many peoples are, it’s pretty standard in our very non be posh area for non mansion houses.

Not in the South East either.

@D0v3Gr3y I live in south London in an average semi. We are in a middle band, nowhere near the top and our borough isn't nearly one of the highest in London. Our house is old and draughty and because we are both home for most of every day, we have the heating on more than some people might do.

I suspect my generation had a rather better standard of education than many people in their 20s and 30s and at least we were taught to show a modicum of respect to others. Perhaps it's also worth bearing in mind that salaries were very much lower than they are today. If you look at mortgage payments in relation to the proportion of people's income, I think things were just as difficult 30 or 40 years ago. At the time we were paying 18% and 16% interest on our mortgage, that was slightly more than 75% of our combined take home salaries, and we had next to nothing left for food, energy, etc. people didn't earn Mumsnet salaries in those days.

Thanks. Pensioner here. 37 years of work and 40 of pension contributions. I'd just like to say how much I value your generosity of spirit and kind attitude to those who have worked hard and contributed all their lives. It's not my fault the pensions system works as it does. I do know I need enough money to be able to live without being cold and hungry. I have a neurological condition and am thus disabled, I cannot work any more. Off I pop to the workhouse then.

You need to ask hard questions about where the money is, seriously. We are not a poor country but 5% of the population have trousered millions of pounds for their own benefit. Ask your MP hard questions. Where's the money? Why are people allowed to off-shore their money and not pay tax? Where has the pandemic money gone? Start from there.

So how are pensioners supposed to afford council tax, utilities, food, clothing etc on a pension that is not keeping up with prices op?