To think the NHS makes it difficult to avoid A&E

[ArchesOfsunflowers]

All the comments about people just going to A&E… but there’s so little alternative!
I try to play the rules, this time:
-GP no appointment until May
-None at 8am
-Try pharmacy for infection, looks at me like I have two heads and says go to GP
-111 really really difficult to be listened to, get callback in the end (refused to discuss both ear and throat having pus/ swelling, I had to pick one issue)
-call back hard to hear, like he’s swallowed the mic
-rude and dismissive but says he’s sending antibiotics to pharmacy. Told off for overuse of antibiotics (she’s not had any in five years???)
-pharmacy receive nothing, so restart the loop.
(Here there’s no walk in, I know some areas have them. We have GP and A&E or out of hours calls/ online consultations)

I’ve luckily not had to call them often, but with 5 children sometimes they need the GP. It’s just inaccessible here. 8am calls are the only on the day options but you end up in a queue for ages to be told there’s no appointments if you call on the dot (it goes to answerphone recorded messages before 8, no calling earlier.)

I get the funding issues. But without GP access people get funnelled to the only option. It’s not just the narrative ofthe lazy/ feckless who go there on whole family jollies to have a fun day out. It’s the fact that people can’t wait a month to see a doctor and there’s nothing else. People get sick occasionally however hard they try.

DD has huge tonsillitis, covered in pus and an ear infection with it, gunk dribbling out. I’m not going for no reason, it’s reasonable to check a child crying in pain with a high fever and pus leaking…but the system is broken. We are being told to blame each other, it’s our fault. Or to shut up because people are sicker or something.

The issue though is an under funded system that’s also got management issues that’s not fit for purpose. It’s not just time wasting for an otherwise fit for purpose system. My local hospital for example is being rebuilt with less beds, and the end of life care ended. No alternative in place, and the population has hugely increased since it was first built. It’s funding… and bizarre planning. And gatekeepers. Partly people, but a shit ton of big issues as well

The more I read on here, the more I appreciate how incredibly lucky we seem to be.
Our surgery go all out. Grandchild hasn’t needed many appointments, thank goodness, but has always been seen same day, as is my husband who has complicated health problems.

We need more GPs, on that we all agree. Doctors want to be GPs, 11,000 applied to be one this year alone. But government won't fund them. It's our taxes. We want doctors to look after us. But those in charge don't care, they just want to make more money.

Whoever said they're moving abroad for a better life, well so are our young doctors. Because they are treated and talked about like they are pieces of shit in this country, who should be happy to live on claps and thanks. With £100,000+ of student debt.

I'm getting older. I'd like to see a doctors in 5 years, not some PA. But unless something changes this is what will be there for anyone not rich enough to go private.

I get the brunt of it at work with patients complaining they couldn’t get referred to is unless they had X episodes except that’s the gp’s not wanting to pay the referral fee and not a policy we’ve set up.

So I tell them how to self refer in future.

More services allow self referral now so it’s worth googling.

Tonsilitis needs 10 days antibiotics or you can get rheumatic fever off it which damages the heart and pharmacy are limited to 5 days antibiotics for sore throats so you do the maths.

It depends where you live, I live rurally in the West Country, very good efficient hospital, never over busy.

GP, often same day, next day worse case and often the offer of a house call if he's on his rounds.

The other week rang at 10.30, Dr dropped by at 3.30 - sadly its a postcode lottery.

We don't get the NHS for free, we are all paying for it through our taxes and National Insurance! That's the social contract we have made, so neither should we feel guilty for wanting to use something we have already paid for!

This. Completely.

We don't get the NHS for free, we are all paying for it through our taxes and National Insurance! That's the social contract we have made, so neither should we feel guilty for wanting to use something we have already paid for!

But this is an issue of unreasonable expectations. Other countries have similar tax systems, providing basic universal care, but also additional private co payments, which most people or their companies pay for. So more money is going into the system overall, and you get a better system!

But that isn't how it works here, @KnittedCardi

I don't think there is anything wrong with reviewing how we fund the NHS and making changes if necessary, but we should not feel guilty for using the service as it has been promised to us under the funding model that is currently in place.

Telling people to go private if they can afford it, so that the government can pretend things are working is just setting up a two tier system by stealth.

Where are you getting your 1.4 million figure from @Sunflowergirl1 ?

Net migration for year ending June 2023 was 672k.

Economic immigrants will be using the health service less anyway as they are typically younger and healthier than our aging population. That's what's causing the biggest strain on our health service.

Our surgery has recently changed their system - every “on-the-day” appointment request gets triaged by a GP when you call. This has solved the 8am scramble as you’ll also be seen (well, usually get a phone call first…) if it’s deemed urgent and you call at say 10am.
I haven’t seen the GP in years but it has worked well for my DH and I have heard other positive voices.
Non-urgent appointments still take ages.
There is obviously still the issue of phone consultations as a default, I am convinced my late DMIL would still be alive had she been seen by a GP the day she called.

All GP's had a deadline of end of March for digitisation, although if MN is indicative, not all have managed that

When you get through at 8am and are told there are no appointments could you not insist on an emergency appt? I was told no appts left so I said I would need to represent at A and E and explain my GP couldn't see me, funnily enough they were able to see me after I said this.

It's all the being batted about between services that annoys me as it wastes more time and resources and you end up more ill.

The week before Easter, I took my son to the pharmacy with something I thought was fairly minor. They told me to take him to the GP. I put in an e-consult, recieved a text response (despite the fact I'd asked for a phone call) telling me to take him to the pharmacy. So then I had to ring, was held in queue for 40mins to tell them I'd already seen the pharmacist who'd told me to contact the GP...the situation then deteriorated fairly rapidly and my child ended up being blue lighted to a&e. Discharged with antibiotics. He got worse and worse. I rang 111 bank holiday Monday, spoke to 3 people, the last of whom rang me back after 9 hours and told me to take him to the GP on Tuesday. I put in an e-consult and rang on Tuesday because I was so concerned how poorly he was...to be told they couldn't guarantee anyone would call me back that day and...to ring 111. At which point I seriously considered just going back to A&E.

Our GP practice is exactly like this, a disgrace. You phone at 8 am in the morning, are in a queue and after 40 min (if you're lucky to get through) you are told that they're no appointments left.

I once got a text from the surgery to book a followup GP appointment for an x-ray done for my infant daughter.

I went into the surgery at 8 am in the morning to book the appointment in person. I got a bollocking from the rude receptionist, because you're only supposed to call to book appointments.

When I was in Istanbul last year and developed a water infection, I had such a positive experience.

I went to a walk in surgery.

I got seen by a doctor within 15 minutes. It took another 15 minutes to get to analyse my urine sample in the adjacent lab. I then got a prescription for antibiotics, which I was able to pick up from the pharmacy across the road.

Clearly missed the point of the OP. She couldn’t get a GP appointment. 🤦🏻‍♀️

I saw the hate for Davina McCall from a few GPs on Twitter after one of her menopause programmes because it would mean providing more appointments.

And here we can see why GPs are leaving. The work-shy lazy over paid wasters. They'll be replaced by PAs as government don't want you to see a doctor - unless you pay.

Yes, all doctors hate their patients and don't want to do any work. That's what the press tell us after all. So it must be true.

Or maybe they are just so over worked that the system is broken. Used to be 2,000 patients per doctor, but in some places it's now 30,000.

To be clear- I started this thread as a far from NHS bashing thread.
I’m frustrated how we all fall time and time again for divide and conquer tactics from the government. Everyone is angry at other people, blaming other people abusing the system. Instead of actually acknowledging how broken the system is due to chronic underfunding. I’d also Chuck in mismanagement as a compounding problem. There are some amazing front line staff, but realistically there are also bad politically driven decisions being made that expand the problems caused by funding issues. More could be done with the money spend.
DD was given a five day antibiotic course of amoxicillin after another phone call and a 9pm drive to an out of hours pharmacy. Pointless tbh at this stage for various reasons.

The cuts have gone too far.
People are suffering, struggling and dying because of them.
Nye Bevan is probably spinning in his grave.

My dp had a message from his familys doctor a couple of weeks ago as it's become apparent that there is a hereditary blood clotting problem. A simple blood test will find whether my dp has this condition. He was sent a prescription for an inhaler and no blood test. He has hot patches in his legs occasionally but until he actually has symptoms for a blood clot, he can't get a blood test or indeed medication, should any test results come back positive. But he can't have a blood test.
Outrageous

Ive posted on here before about how dd has an ear plug stuck in her ear. A&E x2 with a referral to rapid access ENT which was meant to be the following friday/monday. Ha! Waited over a month for the appointment where they said it would have to be done under anaesthetic the following week. I havent heard anything since. Its in absolute shambles!

@ArchesOfsunflowers the waste and bad management is criminal. Basic IT that works, enough qualified staff on wards and enough GPs per head of population would be a start. We can afford it, we just need to stop paying for so many overpaid and unaccountable managers (see Lucy Letby case - not one person has been prosecuted for not listening to the doctors, who were made to apologise to Letby). Some are excellent but some seem to have no grasp on what actually goes on in their hospitals and seem to think doctors are the enemy. Stupid, passive aggressive notices telling doctors they can't sit here or leave their water bottle on that table.
The NHS can work, it always had done up until 12 years ago. It can again if we demand as a population that it does. It's our money paying for it. Pay doctors and nurses enough and more will stay, less need for expensive locums (guess who owns the agencies that profit from bank staff !), and overall lower wage costs. V simple. But less profit for some.

I'm so sorry for your loss

Totally agree with you. My Son-in-law tried to get an appointment with his GP for suspected kidney stones,was told nothing available for 2 weeks and to go to A and E if it was that bad. He went to A and E and then got told off for not going to his GP first!

Moved from SE England to Scotland and absolutely can't compare the NHS. Scotland is so so much better. Same number of GP's for 22,000 less people We've had a couple of broken limbs since we got here. In, x rayed, plastered and out in 2 hours. SEN provision, on the other hand...well, that hardly exists.