To think the NHS makes it difficult to avoid A&E

[ArchesOfsunflowers]

All the comments about people just going to A&E… but there’s so little alternative!
I try to play the rules, this time:
-GP no appointment until May
-None at 8am
-Try pharmacy for infection, looks at me like I have two heads and says go to GP
-111 really really difficult to be listened to, get callback in the end (refused to discuss both ear and throat having pus/ swelling, I had to pick one issue)
-call back hard to hear, like he’s swallowed the mic
-rude and dismissive but says he’s sending antibiotics to pharmacy. Told off for overuse of antibiotics (she’s not had any in five years???)
-pharmacy receive nothing, so restart the loop.
(Here there’s no walk in, I know some areas have them. We have GP and A&E or out of hours calls/ online consultations)

I’ve luckily not had to call them often, but with 5 children sometimes they need the GP. It’s just inaccessible here. 8am calls are the only on the day options but you end up in a queue for ages to be told there’s no appointments if you call on the dot (it goes to answerphone recorded messages before 8, no calling earlier.)

I get the funding issues. But without GP access people get funnelled to the only option. It’s not just the narrative ofthe lazy/ feckless who go there on whole family jollies to have a fun day out. It’s the fact that people can’t wait a month to see a doctor and there’s nothing else. People get sick occasionally however hard they try.

DD has huge tonsillitis, covered in pus and an ear infection with it, gunk dribbling out. I’m not going for no reason, it’s reasonable to check a child crying in pain with a high fever and pus leaking…but the system is broken. We are being told to blame each other, it’s our fault. Or to shut up because people are sicker or something.

The issue though is an under funded system that’s also got management issues that’s not fit for purpose. It’s not just time wasting for an otherwise fit for purpose system. My local hospital for example is being rebuilt with less beds, and the end of life care ended. No alternative in place, and the population has hugely increased since it was first built. It’s funding… and bizarre planning. And gatekeepers. Partly people, but a shit ton of big issues as well

This country is being run by billionaires and millionaires who most probably have never used the NHS in any capacity, and they never will. They are running it into the ground, breaking it up, chunk by chunk, so that it can be entirely privatised. We will then have a medical health care system like in the USA where people are pulling out their teeth with pliers and going bankrupt over having to pay for an emergency operation for a burst appendix or whatever.

Anyone, absolutely any other political party will be better for this country, for the NHS, than the Tory’s. They are literally turning are society into a dystopian vision of the Hunger Games!! Please don’t vote Tory!!

THIS X 1000000

Our GP surgery has a voicemail at 9am now saying no appointments left and go to A and E. And if you have already seen a GP about something and he says .."come back to me if this doesnt work"... you have to start again by calling at 8.00.
It's awful. Surely there must be a better way of triaging sick kids with relatively minor ailments but who NEED a GP?
All the messages in the media about cancer and how you must see your GP...how many people are being missed ? Surely this is a huge ticking time bomb with the UK storing up massive health problems and inequalities?
Even accessing private GP means the prescription is usually private which can be so much more expensive ...
Where will this end ?

I'm with you. Three times this week I've tried to get a GP appointment. Eventually got one and given px. Was told that I might need a different one and to go back in two days if no change. Two days later and GP on holiday. Receptionist gatekeeper won't let me see a different GP for an ongoing condition. Explain it's not ongoing it's acute. Ring 111 who say see GP. Eventually speak to a different receptionist and say if I can't see a different GP I'm going to A&E and I'll be making a complaint about you. And voila I get an appointment and the correct additional treatment. GP even said come back tomorrow if there's no improvement as there's more we can do.

GP surgeries are very underfunded and no longer functional in many areas. Funding hasn't remotely kept up with inflation. I say this as a GP.

Many GP partners are thinking about giving back contracts, so the situation will only get worse. I guess we'll have more of the big, private corporations swoop in to buy them. Then they will staff them with mostly non-doctors because that's cheaper. People with money will go private.

I'm lucky to work in a surgery that employs enough doctors so our patients can usually get seen on the day, but many don't have the funds to or can't recruit.

All the messages in the media about cancer and how you must see your GP...how many people are being missed ? Surely this is a huge ticking time bomb with the UK storing up massive health problems and inequalities?

This. We are basically back to the two tier postcode lottery system which existed before the NHS was set up and which the NHS was created to prevent

It's always really shocking to hear how bad it is in some areas. But there is no doubt that some GPs nor local health systems, are not run well. All GP's should now be using e-consult. Locally we can get appointments and medication on the day, when triaged. I have never seen anyone in the waiting rooms, so most are being remote called. There are two local pharmacies who do Pharmacy first consults, with a booking system and private rooms. We have a couple of walk ins, one with x-ray, although you need a car for both, 10 mile's either way. The local hospital does walk in bloods and x-rays.

We are obviously very lucky, but it does seem like our local system has got it's shit sorted out, and I'm assuming with the same equitable funding as everywhere else.

I had similar recently. I called 111 and they made my GP see me.

Our GP surgery will at least see children same day but you can't get in as an adult. Plus, they have a list of things they won't treat eg burns, bangs, stitches etc and we have no minor injuries and pharmacies can't prescribe here. The sign in the surgery says you must see A&E for any treatment needs.

DH needed to see a GP a few weeks ago and we tried for 4 days, certain he needed antibiotics. 45 minutes to get through, no appointments. On day 5 we called a paramedic out and he was transferred to hospital and stayed there for 8 days. He was seriously unwell and will take a long time to recover.

That’s awful your poor child. I think it really depends on the drs surgery too because I’ve been able to get same day appts every time I call at 8:30am, but my Grandma at a different surgery has a nightmare getting an appt.

I drove her there. On arrival, they recognised how serious the situation was and immediately took her through. The ENT consultant saw her right away and he knew straight away it was a reaction to Ramipril. His timely diagnosis and treatment saved her life. The NHS at its best.

Forgive me for picking out your comment as I'm sure it was an emotional situation. But I don't understand why so many people in the UK have been brainwashed into blindly praising the NHS when they perform a medical service that is absolutely to be expected in a developed country. If someone shows up to a hospital in anaphylactic shock, it's to be expected that they get the correct treatment which will save their life. It is not to be expected that the person will be misdiagnosed and left to die in the waiting room. However the UK has been reduced to people babbling about how incredible the NHS is just because they received the actual correct treatment.

For every person whose life does get saved, there are many others who needlessly suffer due to an overstretched and breaking system. It's almost become a game of lottery bragging rights for people to claim they received "amazing treatment from the fantastic NHS" as a counterargument to all those who complain about waiting times. Yes if you're incredibly lucky, you get cancer treatment for free. But it doesn't change the fact that a huge number of people do not and the UK has one of the most dire survival rates in the developed world. Hospitals in Europe are all able to treat their patients faster and (overall) with more lives saved however there's no cultural norm of blindly praising their medical system almost like a religion or cult. People expect good healthcare to be an inherent part of the infrastructure for which they pay their taxes and social insurance for.

Further to my post below, the added delight of the 1.4 million immigrant inflow is that the surgery I have been at for years, now tell me that I am 500 m outside their geographical boundary and due to "population inflow" as they describe it, they can no longer have me and the family as patients. I will be deregistered in 30 days!!. So I have to then go to the hassle and upset of re registering with one down the road.

The laugh is as a result, new surgery have now implemented same system, so my friend is being kicked out to register at surgery I've come from. So another NHS beaurocratic merry go round

I absolutely agree OP.

We need a GP service a long side A&E we have one at the hospital near us, wait times are lower and people are triaged to The GP service

Same. My GP is brilliant.

It can be done.

I know people nearby with the same problem as the op. Ending up in a and e.

at one time a and e was a last resort or somewhere you went with major injury heart attacks etc. You ring the GP now dead on 8 and you are 26th on line so you know you won't get apt probably not even a phone call from a GP. The surgery opens at 8.30 so if you turn up in person all apts have gone.
our local pharmacist is useless even the GPs tell you not to bother just use online ones instead. there is a small hospital in town but any more than a sticking plaster you have to go 30-plus miles for an a and e which is way overpacked like most people it is a good 16-hour or more wait

Burns and wounds that need stitches are accidents and should rightly go to accident and emergency. GPs aren't actually funded to deal with accidents. Doing stitches in a 10 minute GP appointment would be impossible.

Sorry to hear about your DH. I agree an admission could potentially have been avoided with timely treatment. Not only is it an awful experience for the patient but think about the cost of admission. Our current healthcare system cuts off its own nose to spite it's face.

Last month 11,000 doctors applied to be GPs. But the government only fund for 4,000. Doctors are being made redundant in favour of less trained PAs.

That why you can't see a GP. We have more than enough doctors, but the government refuse to fund them (this is not about cost as PAs are no cheaper - but they can't prescribe & have less than 2 years training against a GPs 7-10).

More people therefore choose to go private - wonder who owns those companies 🤬

My children or I haven't seen a doctor for years, on the odd chance I have to phone them up it is always a call back and that is always by a pharmacist.
Which the last time one of my children were seen I was told it was shingles (definitely not as the rash was widespread and 2 they have never had chickenpox).
Had to take them to A&E in the end as it was a rash that didn't disappear.
I don't know what the answer is but the current system/recruitment is not working.

I work for the nhs, but feel the whole service’s aim is to persuade people not to really use it, whatever service they are trying to access. You are always faced with a sign or voicemail asking you to question yourself for using it, or telling you to call or go somewhere else (that often sends you back to the original place (looking at you pharmacies). Thankfully i have not yet been majorly ill but on the infrequent times i have used the local gp I always worry i’ll be seen as taking the piss, even though I’m not, so put off contact and suffer a bit longer than i probably should have. I don’t see this guilting of its users emphasised in such the same way in other countries. i get their services are set up different, but i just hate the overall vibe here currently.

Also wanted to add that in many European countries there is absolutely no stigma attached to using private healthcare. There are various healthcare plans available and a huge number of "average" middle class families take out private insurance especially after they have children. The costs are not exorbitant in any way, comparable to a mobile phone contract. Having private healthcare is seen as choosing to invest in your family's wellbeing, comparable to spending more money on organic food.

For every family going private, it frees up capacity for people using free healthcare services (technically not free but the costs for that are deducted from everyone's salaries so it makes no difference). That in turn reduces the number of people going to A&E with non-emergencies so everyone receives the right treatment at the right time. A knock-on effect of this is that being a doctor or dentist is seen as a very pleasant and rewarding job. There are usually 10x more applicants to medical universities than there are places so the number of doctors in the community is huge.

There is none of the odd entitlement of refusing to pay for healthcare just because you can and should get it for free on the NHS. Or going private looked down upon as somehow betraying certain political or societal values.

I’m in the South East, where we have had GP Surgery’s merging, with even less appointments available.
we don’t have any walk in centres any near us, no pharmacist prescribers either, no econsult available at our local surgery. I have tried, like many others to call at 8am, only to be told ‘they have reached their safe working limits for today’ & try again tomorrow! They will NOT let you book an appointment whilst you’re stood at reception desk - crazy!
I have the NHS app, but no facility to book an appointment online.
it’s impossible & not fit for service, due to years of negligence by the government!

Forgive me for picking out your comment as I'm sure it was an emotional situation. But I don't understand why so many people in the UK have been brainwashed into blindly praising the NHS when they perform a medical service that is absolutely to be expected in a developed country

This 1000%

What the PP described is shockingly poor levels of health provision, wrapped in the inevitable lionisation of “our wonderful NHS”. This is delusional.

The problem with people treating the NHS like an artifice of religious faith is that people just don’t face up to how bad it has become. And because they are ideologically committed to it won’t question anything it does.

The level of primary care service provided by the NHS is now substantially worse in many areas than what was around before its creation and people are in denial about this.

I am ideologically committed to the NHS in some form too but we simply can’t go on like this and people need to have a grown up debate without the polarisation between those who say it should be privatised and those who say it’s perfect and above reproach.

I'm a GP receptionist, it's frustrating all round. On a Monday morning our appointments for the morning can be gone within 15 minutes of answering the phone asking people to call back in the afternoon when it's not even 9am is hard.