to think that if I shared an explicit picture of myself with a stranger and then they used that to blackmail to release client information, I would be sacked?

[cakeorwine]

I guess people know what we are talking about.

William Wragg: Jeremy Hunt praises MP's apology over dating app incident - BBC News

If you send an explicit picture of yourself to a stranger, you are asking for danger.

If I did that and I was blackmailed into releasing personal information on other people, I would be sacked,

But hey, it's an accident. Nothing to see here.

And as for MPs who then were contacted by a stranger and then sent their own explicit pictures, what is there to say?

Only one person has mentioned the words "moral decency" on this thread - and that's it

So I don't know why @noblegiraffe is getting sidetracked about morality.

It's about showing a complete lack of judgement which could have led to very serious consequences for other people as he made himself open to blackmail.

He will be a lesson for children in their life skills lessons to come - a case study.

So you agree with me on that point of immorality. I assume you just couldn't be bothered to challenge it earlier.

Of course it showed a lack of judgement, because the guy ended up blackmailing him.

However, I would like your response to whether you would think it similarly irresponsible if Wragg had met a girl in a bar, slept with her, and then found her threatening to reveal intimate pictures.

Would you similarly judge that as irresponsible? Both situations are normal sexual behaviour and both risk compromising pictures being used for blackmail.

I'm wondering where you draw the line for responsibility.

Yanbu, but again it's one rule for them... the disrespect any of them have for their position is staggering. Jeremy Hunt called him courageous instead of sacking him for compromising others, and the fact a couple of the numbers he handed over also fell for it, Jesus wept!

However, I would like your response to whether you would think it similarly irresponsible if Wragg had met a girl in a bar, slept with her, and then found her threatening to reveal intimate pictures

I do think that actively sending intimate pictures yourself - you are the person who took the pictures and you are the one who decided to send them to a complete stranger is irresponsible.

There is a difference. If he had sent them to a woman, that's still the same.

He had control and the choice. He was the one who took the pictures - there was no hidden camera, no subterfuge. He actively put himself in the position by sending them himself.

Of course it showed a lack of judgement,

I think this half of the sentence was enough. He showed a lack of judgement in sending the pictures to a stranger, given his position and knowing how vulnerable this made him to blackmail, he showed a serious dereliction of duty falling for the blackmail and not seeking any help or advice, and even more of a lack of judgement giving up the personal details of his colleagues. If he had stopped at the first act, most people would have been sympathetic.

I do think that sending anonymous images to a stranger over the internet is likely much higher risk than a one night stand.

In a small proportion of one night stands, there is a small risk that you might unknowingly have intimate photos taken of you. If you’re distributing intimate photos of yourself, then the risk is obviously there.

I appreciate the threshold might not be clear cut but I do think this was very risky behaviour.

I am very surprised at some of the victim-blaming posts in here, though, so far as they relate to the initial blackmail. It doesn’t absolve him of responsibility but he is most certainly a victim.

"I am very surprised at some of the victim-blaming posts in here, though, so far as they relate to the initial blackmail. It doesn’t absolve him of responsibility but he is most certainly a victim"

So he has responsibility but it's not on to blame him for what happened?

He sent intimate pictures of himself to a stranger who then blackmailed him.

The blame lies with him and the person who blackmailed him

I agree. I work in a school and we are given a lot of advice about how we should behave in public and on social media etc. MP’s must be given a huge amounts of advice in regard to the likelihood of blackmail etc. I find it absolutely disgusting that they are trying to dress this up as being courageous instead of calling it what it is, a security risk, and sacking him.

I am very surprised at some of the victim-blaming posts in here, though, so far as they relate to the initial blackmail. It doesn’t absolve him of responsibility but he is most certainly a victim.

I don't deny he is a victim of blackmail, but I cannot understand how he wasn't aware of the risk ? Makes you wonder if he is going to pull the ignorant or arrogant card ?

Men, women and children are blackmailed over sexual images all the time, by people who they were wrong to trust.

The blame lies with the scum who do that - even if the victim should have known better (and an MP in his thirties should absolutely have known better).

I do think that actively sending intimate pictures yourself - you are the person who took the pictures and you are the one who decided to send them to a complete stranger is irresponsible.

So you don't think that having a one-night stand with a stranger is irresponsible?

Both open oneself up to risk when the person you are being intimate with is a blackmailer. And it is agreed that MPs will be targeted.

One risk is acceptable, the other, not?

He was, categorically, a victim of blackmailing, so I don’t agree with you when you say:

“If you give a stranger material that can lead to you being blackmailed, then you are to blame.”

or other posters that have expressed similar sentiments.

But him being a victim doesn’t make his subsequent actions okay, at all.

I think that if you decide to send an intimate picture of yourself to a stranger, you are engaging in very risky behaviour that could lead to blackmail.

Which is far more risky than a one night stand.

And he was the one who decided to take and send the picture himself.

We're given a lot of advice about not bringing the profession into disrepute. I don't think a gay single man sending consensual dick pics would bring the profession into disrepute?

Someone previously suggested a headmaster doing this would be an issue. It shouldn't be, unless people have a moral objection to it?

Whilst it might be normal for the average person to share intimate photos on dating apps, surely Wragg must have been aware that his position as an MP made him vulnerable to exploitation?

He’s been naive at best for sending dick pics to a stranger. It was reckless behaviour for an MP.

He can both be a victim of blackmailing and he can also have some responsibility for the actions that got him there.

No, but they should be mindful of the way in which their privileged position as an MP could make them vulnerable . MPs are given extensive training on this .

if you want to be able to engage in risky behaviour , which would include sending sexual images , then choose a profession which does not make you a blackmail target . This man was not just an MP but chair of the Public Administration Committee , he also has a reputation for being censorious of others behaviour and taking the moral high ground . If you dole it out you have to be able to take it .

So you are saying that opening yourself up to the risk of blackmail is acceptable in certain situations but not others?

We know that honeytraps operate in person too.

If a headmaster did this - AND then was blackmailed into releasing personal information on staff or pupils, then there would be professional consequences.

Do you think there would be, or should be professional consequences if he merely sent consensual dick pics?

Because if not, grouping the two together when you condemn the behaviour is quite odd.

You send an intimate picture of yourself - it's far more risky than a one night stand if you don't want that picture to end up elsewhere.

You tell pupils not to send intimate pictures to others.
But you don't tell them not to have relationships and sex,

If you bothered to read it, you would have read that there should be consequences for his actions in releasing the details of the MPs phones.

Just as if a Headteacher had been blackmailed.

You’re making this all about morals, it isn’t, and you have also missed out the fact that it was to a stranger. It’s about making decisions based around your circumstances. Sending any nude pics to strangers is not advisable especially if you are in a position of power and this MP would have been fully aware of that. I have certainly advised my DC’s against this.
Anyway, the point is, instead of going to the police he actually leaked information and should have been sacked for doing this not been told that he is being courageous imo.

He announced some time ago that he was standing down as an MP, like many others. There is no indication that it was because of this. He should have resigned with immediate effect, but I suspect he was leant on not to because Sunak doesn't want to risk yet another by-election defeat.

Surely anyone with half a brain knows that if you are in public life you do not take stupid risks like sharing explicit photos. If you have, you don't start involving other innocent people in the consequences of your stupidity to try to save your worthless neck.

No, it's not the worst thing an MP has done. Johnson lying to the queen and committing crimes, for instance, was worse. But that's hardly the point, is it? The criterion for continuing to draw a fat MP's salary cannot be simply that you don't act quite as badly as some other MPs have in the past. He needs to resign now.

Sending intimate pictures is risky even with someone you know and trust. Because you don't know how they'll feel or what they'll do with those pictures in the future. Anyone sending identifiable intimate pictures is taking a known and obvious risk.

That said, there's nothing morally wrong with it and in sending the pictures Wragg hadn't (imo) crossed any sort of line. And he was most definitely the victim of blackmail. Up until the point at which he divulged sensitive info he was entirely victim and quite blameless.

I can understand the temptation to give in to blackmail but we really do need to expect more of legislators. The second you give in to blackmail you demonstrate yourself to be unsuited to public office.