Photo ID to vote is a flagrant cladding attack

[Pireck]

You will need photo ID to vote in the general election this year. This won't be a problem for me personally as I have it, but many of the people where I grew up are too poor to drive or travel abroad. Many people in this country don't have valid photo ID, and they shouldn't have to to shell out a significant amount of money they likely don't have in order to cast their vote. An absolutely flagrant attack on the poor and otherwise deprived.

The title is supposed to read classist, not cladding.

So many other countries seem to manage voter ID with no issues. Why are we making such a fuss about it here? Are those against voter ID suggesting UK citizens are somehow less capable of dealing with it than other Europeans? Too feckless? Too stupid? Too apathetic?

JRM is the Tory party now I thought he was a Tory MP my mistake

not sure what is hard to understand about being able register to vote where you were living before you went to university

those who are not aware that the next election is highly likely to be this year most likely have no interest in voting again their choice

I disagree, OP. The right to vote is a privilege and should be taken seriously. Many, many other European countries already require ID to vote.

We’re lucky to live in a democracy and if we want to vote, we should make time to get a free ID or use a postal vote.

I’ve been lazy about voting sometimes, but I’ve realized my mistake and I’m encouragingly my children to exercise that right as soon as they can.

You’re right the timing isn’t in their control. But they don’t have to register in their new location to vote, they can be registered at their home address (which they can do from age 16) and have either a postal or proxy vote - and applying for that is no more onerous than registering to vote in a new location. It’s the solution all mine have used until such time as they were also registered in their new locations. But then all three were/are politically engaged and wouldn’t have dreamt of not voting. ID however, I’m on the fence about, it does disenfranchise some for sure, though it seems the UK is far behind the rest of Europe in that regard. The valid documentation list could certainly be expanded.

But to cast your vote there you have to go back there at whatever cost for a train or coach ticket, or you have to register for postal voting, ensure you get the postal vote form before you leave home or ask someone at home to forward it.

Can you really not see the multiple
extra steps that could go wrong / lead to a group already relatively apathetic about voting (the young, consistently lower turnout) thinking ‘fuck this’.

And don’t be obtuse. JRM wasn’t the only Tory to suggest voter ID was gerrymandering. Even if he was (he wasn’t) he’s a pretty senior Tory so I’d say he’s allowed to be considered a spokesperson.

I think you can apply for a postal vote.
This is what I am planning to do as my name on the voting register is different from passport and driving licence.

Off the top of my head, there’s the cost - the government estimates somewhere between £65m and £180m over a decade.

There’s the proof it disenfranchises people.

There’s the fact that there is no evidence of significant in-person voter fraud.

There’s the fact that it doesn’t apply to postal voting, which is where the minimal fraud has occurred.

The capability of the electorate isn’t what I’m questioning; it’s the intentions of the government.

I fundamentally disagree with anything that makes voting harder for anyone.

The very act of introducing measures to ‘combat fraud’ casts doubt on the veracity of our democratic process - and it is entirely unnecessary.

Oh, and there’s the way it’s been implemented, with young people unable to use ID that older people can (eg Oyster card, bus pass) and the government ignoring advice on timescales for registration for the generic voter ID.

Still doesn't answer the question of why so many other countries manage without any issues. Young people have a myriad of ID options - being unable to use a bus pass is neither here nor there. Many already have Proof of Age ID, they can apply for free ID, will likely have had to provide ID for uni accommodation purposes.

I don’t know why other countries manage.

I also don’t care.

I care about the myriad reasons we shouldn’t have it that I’ve shared above.

Plus, do we know those countries are fine? Have you got anything to show there aren’t the same issues with disenfranchisement?

Why are OAP Oyster cards acceptable but Young Oyster cards not?

Apart from the obvious deliberate attempt to make it harder for a section of society more likely to not vote Tory?

It might not matter to you, but it sure as fuck matters to me.

Well there's posters on the thread commenting from Ireland who don't seem to have any issues.

But we're obviously a special case in the UK

Really? I haven’t read any comments from Irish people discussing the disenfranchisement or not of groups.

Oh, you mean a selection of computer literate people on an internet forum have said they don’t find voter id onerous.

Yeah, not the issue I was addressing.

Someone earlier posted what if elderly, infirm can’t get out of the house to post their vote. If they can’t get out to the post box how would they get to the polling station?

For the posters who are angry about this, are you being community minded and checking in on your local neighbours who you think fall in the categories not able to get ID easily and helping them do it.

'Apart from the obvious deliberate attempt to make it harder for a section of society more likely to not vote Tory?'

There is the option of a FREE ID card.

There are perfectly good reasons why a 60+ oyster card is valid ID and a student Oyster card isn't:

https://fullfact.org/online/oyster-card-voter-id/

Ok, fair enough re the Oyster not being identical in terms of proof - but that link goes on to talk about other forms of ID for the young that has similar requirements and isn’t accepted, like the YP Railcard.

The free ID card - does it need to be printed? Because I don’t have access to a printer. Does everyone else?

Again, the point is that this is addressing a problem that isn’t there.

The minimal voter fraud has occurred in postal votes - which don’t require ID.

They often get taken to the polling station by volunteers. Presumably the volunteers could also post their forms, too. But I guess that could be more open to abuse.

‘Who are you voting for, Margery?’

’Greens’

throws envelope in Geoffrey’s potting shed

Thank you for your contributions to this issue, which have largely been telling me to shut up in a way that is neither convincing nor funny.

You still haven't told us how this policy doesn't unnecessarily prevent people from voting. Ah that's right, because it does.

I would encourage anyone to remind those who they feel might not be in the know about the changes and offer assistance if they are able. But they shouldn't have to.

Apparently, there's a risk of foreign states interfering with our polls but they're probably just gonna sit back and let us mess it up ourselves now.

No there is not.

Some of those other countries have mandatory ID cards. In 2003 David Blunkett proposed the introduction of them here. They were costly and it didn’t happen. Times have changed in 20 years, I think it was an opportunity missed. Lord Blunkett last week..

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-13265213/LORD-BLUNKETT-Britain-identity-cards-immigration-stop-boats.html#:~:text=39%20shares-,LORD%20BLUNKETT%3A%20If%20Britain%20had%20brought%20in%20identity%20cards%2C%20illegal,them%20and%20stop%20the%20boats

So those being evicted are going to stop and go vote. Yet they aren't capable of applying for a free vote card.

I think every country in EU has got ID cards. It's mandatory not only have one with you when you vote but also to be registered in an exact voting district. It's like that in my eastern European country. Everyone who wants to access any public services or banking needs their ID. It's not discriminatory to anyone. It's normal. If you want to be part of the society you need one. Why would some random people be able to vote in the national elections there?

Strictly speaking, it's compulsory to get your name marked off the roll here. What you do once you're in the voting booth, nobody knows. Donkey vote? Spoiled vote? Not vote at all? Could be any.