To overthrow our government

[DahliaRose3]

Another pay day, and another depressing financial month ahead. I’m fuming that our nursery costs are so high! No, I don’t want to have to cut back everything because I work a stressful job at 40+ hours a week and I want to enjoy my life at 40+ years old & the coffee & occasional weekend brunch I buy. I don’t have the option to cut back hours in my job.

My partner and I earn well on paper (for the first time in our lives we were getting ahead financially), but have next to nothing to show for it. No new clothing, nor fancy trips, nor fancy dates out. We aren’t flash. I genuinely worry about my pension, this deficit is contributing to the fact that I don’t own a home, or have decent savings.

How are we the British public standing for this extortion! We are being exploited as women, families, and the general public.

AIBU? We need to all stand together, and walk out. Strike! The parents, the grandparents filling in as free childcare, the nursery workers.

Don't even bother replying if you’re not in agreement at the absolute sh*t show of a set up!

This has nothing to do with being grateful, it’s an horrid potion that they’ve forced families into. Having a baby is for the wealthy, as many can’t even afford children.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1050929/voter-turnout-in-the-uk/
Here is some evidence about how I know.
@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe .

I don’t even have kids, but completely agree. Everything is a rip off, and there's fuck all we can do about it. They expect us to work our arses off, to contribute to society and pay our taxes, and have bugger all left at the end of the month. Oh, and don't even get me started on the State Pension, which probably won't exist when I reach retirement age.

childcare has always been £££. 15 years ago less than today but wages were also lower. My salary was less than my childcare - I don't have a single friend in that situation and we had no 9 month or 2 year funding. That was under labour.

The early years don't last forever.

If you go on to UK Parliament, you can download the information, it's broken down in various ways and makes for interesting perusal, @LyingWitchInTheWardrobe .
Younger people and ethnic minority groups are less likely to vote. Gender differences now not so noticeable.

I know this wasn't really the point you were making, but Germany and Japan are two of the world's leading economies and about as stable and resilient as they come. Both had Fascist governments overthrown within living memory.

The problem with the UK is we've been in a desperate race to the bottom since Thatcher, and since a healthy proportion of the electorate appear to have zips up the back of their heads and will ignore the obvious red flags and happily trot off to vote for charlatans like Boris Johnson, we've pretty much ended up with UK politics being an open sewer of corruption, incompetence, and no accountability whatsoever.

There's no need to be a politician of any actual integrity or competence when the electorate don't bother their arse to scrutinise what you are saying and don't stop to consider that your past behaviours are a big flashing neon sign showing you are completely unfit to hold office, so we end up with the government "we" deserve, with the unfortunate caveat that those of us who don't elect the piss-taking buffoons still have to suffer the consequences thanks to democracy.

It's telling that the last of the "decent" Tories chucked the towel in prior to the 2019 GE, because even they could see the writing on the wall with regards to what was going to happen if the keys were handed over to this latest iteration of their own party. They are the absolute dregs of a party which has always been short on morality and tolerated a sizable lunatic element. It was utterly predictable. You put the clowns in charge of the circus tent, the entire thing turns into a farce.

We're now in a situation where spin, contempt, ignoring inconvenient facts, and refusing to subject yourself to any sort of scrutiny in favour of soft-soaping by a complicit media is so much the norm that everyone has to lower themselves to it to a degree, hence why you end up with a Labour Party that is now to the right of where the Tories themselves were not so long ago, and an opposition leader who basically apes every example of Tory excess for the sake of electoral expediency.

The UK desperately needs to hit the reset button, but while there is a compliant, complicit media, a healthy proportion of the population happy to live in ignorance, and a minority happy to throw everyone and everything else under the bus if it benefits them to the tune of a few quid, then nothing is going to change.

The fascist governments of Germany and Japan were not overthrown. The Nazis were defeated in war - the regime as such was not overthrown, but had to surrender to the Allies. Same with Japan, although the Emperor remained in situ.

@XDownwiththissortofthingX
Can you explain why you think that the current Labour Party are more to the right of where the Conservatives were recently?

To make effective change. I would like to see another party created that is centre right on crime, tax, enforcement but centre left on education, NHS. So I can vote for someone who will actually change Britain.

I would like a party that would build lots of social housing, so that if you work NMW job 36+ hours, that you can afford to live somewhere decent with a landlord that carries out timely repairs , if necessary.

I would like a party to put the people first, before profit. That holds people accountable for their choices but also promotes tolerance and social cohesion.

I would like a party to promote British business and bring back manufacturing of goods to be sold in Britain. e.g. cars to be built in Britain as oppose to being shipped into Britain.

I would like a party that can make the big decisions e.g. women's rights, assisted dying, elderly care and put in well thought out, fully funded solutions.

Semantics.

Both governments brought to an end via means other than democracy, and without their own compliance. They were overthrown.

I thought the poster meant internal overthrow, as opposed to being defeated in global conflict.
However, you're right. They were toppled.

Yes it is with all the death threats and other abuse that MPs get.

If you aren't prepared to do it yourself then don't criticise the people who are brave enough to do it.

Starmer's Labour walking stride for stride on matters like Immigration and Welfare with the most right-wing Tory government.

Rachel Reeves declaring the Tories persecution of the poor and disabled doesn't go nearly far enough for her.

What Starmer actually does once in office is open to conjecture, but it's clear that right now they are courting Tory votes by taking typical Tory lines on contentious subjects, and if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck...

Then there's the fact that what remained of Labour's "left", having survived even New Labour, has been pretty much expunged from the party. The way anything and anyone deemed unpalatable because of perceived links to Jeremy Corbyn, spurious or otherwise, has been marginalised and ostracised in an almost Stalinist purge.

There's nothing remains of what Labour once was. Blair is responsible for most of that, but Starmer is taking it to another level. You can't get a cigarette paper between his party's policies and those of the incumbent government, hence why he's continually accused of being Tory Lite, a Tory in a red tie, and so on.

Again, what they actually do once in government is another matter, but right now they look almost indistinguishable from Sunak's clown troupe, with the only obvious difference being they aren't busy asset-stripping the country and lining their own pockets with public money.

Where do you get off on telling people what they can and can't do? I'll criticise the people that I'm paying for anytime I want to do that.

MPs are not the only people who receive death threats and abuse, they just have a higher profile and in many cases, unwarranted. I rate my local (Labour) MP, he does a great job but it's not one that I would want to do.

Go and do the job yourself instead of pontificating here and dictating to others what they should be doing.

We live in a democracy so vote for change.

If you feel really passionate about it join a political party and campaign for change.

I have voted in every election since I was 18, and personally campaigned in every one except the pregnancy years until about 8 years ago.

Both me and DH spent many years as political activists and he spent a no of years as MP.

No more. The threats, the online hate, rubbish being thrown in the garden, altercations in the street, having to carry panic alarms, having to leave our home on police advice.

Its just not worth it.

He is still a member but I can't stomach it any more.

If you aren't prepared to do a job yourself, then don't criticise the people who are. There is no reason why you can't stand to become an MP except that you don't want to but you would just rather moan than do something about it. How is that reasonable.

No, they are not the only ones who get abuse, but what difference does that make????

@XDownwiththissortofthingX - I have just finished reading the Labour Party manifesto. It doesn't seem particularly Tory to me. It's not exactly Old Labour and they're not going to re-nationalise, but it's hardly neo -liberal and they don't seem to have lost the Keynesian approach.

@MyDHusedtobeanMP - sorry to hear that. You actually tried to make a change and got off your arses. Credit to you both.
It really is shocking how some people treat those willing to stand and want to make a difference.

EmpressOfTheThread, thanks for the statistics, they make for an interesting overall view of the voting scene in the UK at that time. I wonder if there will be any upturn in voting at the next GE?

The people I know of - who don't vote - have said that this is because they don't know who to vote for. There was a useful link posted a while ago with the purpose of finding out which party you'd need to vote for to get the tories out:
https://tactical.vote/

My result was to vote Labour, which I would do anyway.

Thank you, @LyingWitchInTheWardrobe - I think if people are unsure of who to vote for, a tactical vote may be a good solution.

That is really appalling. It's one thing to not agree with a policy but it's quite another to be abused; nobody should have to put up with that.

Can I ask which party your husband is an MP for? Not the area, just the party, if you're comfortable to say so?

EmpressOfTheThread, I think one of the most difficult things for me was that whatever is said in a manifesto isn't binding. So politicians can essentially say they'll do x, y, z - and then not do it. There is not accountability that I'm aware of? I asked my local MP about this and he said that unfortunately, that is the case, but the MPs who mean to do a good job will follow through on what they promised.

As I mentioned, he's a good MP I think, but that's sheer luck. He could just as easily have been one promising the earth and not delivering.

Does anybody know why a manifesto can't be legally binding? There must be a reason for it?

Does anybody know why a manifesto can't be legally binding? There must be a reason for it?

I can't see it ever getting into law because it's not possible to predict the future.

A manifesto could commit to reducing spending on Defence and then a week after the GE we get invaded by another country.

Real life at a global and national level is just too unpredictable to legally commit to aims and promises.

It'd be like holding a company legally responsible if it failed to meet its profit forecasts after one of its main suppliers unexpectedly went bust.

You can't legislate for the totally unknown.

While I apportion blame to Putin for Brexit, Liz Truss is not his fault. She was a wholly, Tory made problem.

YANBU @DahliaRose3. And if Rishi keeps laughing in the face of people asking when he'll call a GE, you might get your wish.😬

It's not too much to ask to be able to put a roof over your head and establish a family. Apparently it is in the UK now though. What a state to find ourselves in as well as the public services, which are collapsing around us.