China and our children. AIBU to be deeply concerned?

[Concerningalgorithms]

I read this article and am so concerned. So many of our kids are on TT.

https://nypost.com/2023/02/25/china-is-hurting-us-kids-with-tiktok-but-protecting-its-own/amp/

Basically, TT and other SM have the same effect on our brain as addictive substances such as heroine. Developers know this and create highly addictive (make use of our knowledge of the reward centre in our brain), apps/platforms/games that leave us with dopamine crashes when we can’t have it. So that tantrum or meltdown when we say ‘turn screens off now’ is partly, if not mostly, to do with that, is one example.

The article above says that China use different algorithms there for TT so it is helpful for children’s development. They are peddling addictive, concentration lowering crap to children around the world, but protecting their own children.

Why are we allowing this? Why are we not protecting our children too? The science is there.

And AIBU to think that we are at risk, as a country, of raising a generation that will be less well adapted and more vulnerable in the future to a hostile take over?

Define expert. I do actually have expertise in this area. I teach undergrad medics about it. Is that expert enough?

And the tantrumming thing you speak of, we have a non stop battle with screens, taking them away, banning, restricting, doing the ‘come on family games night’, ‘come on, family walk’, getting kids over, going to activities, forcing them into playing with the dog etc etc.

Even with all that my kids are bemused when they hear of kids screaming and tantruming over screens. An adult with asd that my dh works with said the best thing is mum ever did was take away his iPad when he’d stayed up all night gaming and missed college. She just got rid of it.

He said he had a two day meltdown and then came down to his family again. We need to parent our way out of this (and to be fair I’ve been on mn too much lately- I need to get back to real life too!)

I am interested. I’m not a sociologist so don’t know that research base. I am also mildly addicted! Going to turn my phone to black and white to see if that helps!

This isn’t entirely true. It shows you a variety of videos when you first start and for some videos you don’t understand what you are watching until the whole video has ended or you once you do realise that you don’t want to watch it and swipe up.
This seems especially true of videos about sex trafficking, abuse etc so once you have watched one, it serves you more. A lot of this content is extremely hard hitting and upsetting and unfortunately there is not much chance to stop the algorithm once it thinks you want to watch it.
now factor in young teens accessing this for the first time, what parent has thought to go through this with their kids before they let them join up? People just don’t know how bad it can be.
more studies have shown how additive the algorithm is even on ‘nice’ content. It is addictive, it is designed to be this way.
I also saw a tik tok, ironically, that showed someone set up a profile of a 13 year old girl and within hours the type of content that was served to that account around eating disorders.
I have deleted my account now and I wouldn’t ever go back.

OP, your posts perplex me.

It's irrelevant as to why China does anything. They are a restrictive state, where individual choice, be it a child or an adult, is massively limited.

Whereas in Western countries, the choice about how social media is consumed is left with the parents, in China, and similarly-governed countries, it's imposed by Government.

It's not about 'what they know'.

I have three teens (or nearly). Like all parents of teens, I'm constantly fighting a battle around screen use / time. However, I see positive benefits to social media, in terms of community building & socialisation, as well as a source of knowledge. I work at third level & social media (as part of our engagement) is a key point of engagement with our students and is enormously beneficial.

Of course there are dangers & downsides.

These are mitigated by limits & boundaries, as many naturally imposed as possible eg they all play sports which takes up a lot of time, evenings, weekends etc, and it's a completely different environment to online. So I'm fine with them then engaging online, scrolling, or making content (like TikTok videos).

There's great stuff on TT. You are being utterly alarmist. My eldest DD is aiming to study medicine. She follows other students on both TT & IG who share their experiences of studying for / applying for medicine.

Finally, as with so much, it's also about conversation. I ask my teens not to go on their phones when we're in the car, so we talk, no screens at the dinner table, and they often show me content on TT, and it's enjoyable & a way to connect.

The principles around teen well-being have not really changed over many decades, despite the advent of technology.

Except (channels Whitney) I believe that children are our future…

Because they are. China have legislated to protect children’s development, not as a child centred intervention, as a strategic play to secure a prosperous future. Even if we don’t give two hoots about our children, It’s in the countries best interests to raise happy, stable, motivated and intelligent beings with and ability to concentrate. When you are old and need care/health input etc, you’ll want capable adults at the helm.

It is a parenting responsibility for sure. I’m on it in my house. But I work with kids. I see it all the time. We legislate around gambling, smoking, alcohol and drugs. It’s no different. China have very specific algorithms for kids, it’s only available for a certain time period and not when they should be asleep. We could easily do the same so that all children are protected and not just those with clued up parents.

I work in education and support a zero tolerance approach to phones in schools.

I work in education, and I don't.

I believe in boundaries as appropriate, but I also believe in education, in recognising the effective use of technology & in allowing parents that latitude (each family makes different choices).

I'm in Ireland, so we start secondary at an older age (now most will be 13) and I made the decision to only allow my DC phones as they approached secondary school. My eldest has never been a problem with regard to phone use, and is well able to self-limit; my middle child is much more challenging around phone use & we've had to have several conversations about appropriate use, but he's learning. And my youngest (still 12) doesn't have a phone but is the worst for wanting to be on a device, and the cleverest at circumventing limits. 3 DC with different patterns of behaviour & needing various approaches.

I teach undergrad medics about it. Is that expert enough?

Not really! 😀 I'm not sure what you teach exactly, but I teach on information literacy / misinformation, all the way to PhD level and I don't think I'm an 'expert' on anything in this area.

I've informed views, that's all.

what parent has thought to go through this with their kids before they let them join up?

Surely most? I often am beside them when they're on the apps, they have limited time, I often see what they are seeing.

There's a huge amount of wholesome, interesting content. And lots of drivel. But not harmful. (I mean there is, but I'm saying it's not at all a given they'll be exposed to it).

That quote is what I see day to day in my work. Huge gaping gap. And it’s often hand in hand with low income. Not enough money for hobbies to fill the time.

Well. Yes. Legislation can go too far into social control for sure.

Yes. No TT allowed in our house at all. I just worry for the kids with parents that don’t see the risks v

I hate driving past bus stops in the morning and seeing crowds of teenagers silent, head down, glued to their phones rather than talking to each other.

Yeah, I don't love scenes like thiseither.

However I also recognise it was ever-thus. Generations of adults have objected to teen behaviour.

And some of that was arguably more problematic than today's screen use.

I've seen teens connect & learn through these social connections. They can widen their circle & develop friendships. I was a lonely teen who had to work hard to develop friendships outside of school hours. As I type I can hear my two boys playing an online game with friends, lots of laughing. And in a while they'll head out and kick a ball.

It's not all sweetness & light, of course. But this doom & gloom mentality is just silly.

No TT allowed in our house at all. I just worry for the kids with parents that don’t see the risks

And what about the benefits? In my earlier post I set them out. TT is not some universal evil.

For example, I and my team in work create TT content daily as part of our university teaching. It's a point of access.

'No TT in my house' is ridiculous. Will you say that right up till they're 18? Are you not interested in raising critical thinkers?

Sorry. I missed this. I understand. It’s the Chinese government I’m referring to as per the article. And it’s purely the fact that they are being savvy enough to protect their kids whilst we turn a blind eye. I’m also aware of recent flexing China have been doing in terms of military operations and that, knowing a bit about their attitude to human rights and the collectivist culture, I doubt very much they are protecting their kids out of compassion or care. It will be strategic.

Wasn’t suggesting this. But they are doing more to protect their kids than us and this is unlikely to be a child focussed intervention and more likely to be strategic to long term aims.

I agree that it can go too far but we legislate around smoking, gambling and alcohol. Why not this?

And yes, lots of threats to us, not just China. The article just made me think.

You're getting a lot of pushback OP, I'd imagine by those who are either young themselves or habitual tiktok users or both. You are absolutely correct regarding your concerns for childrens development and the behaviour of the Chinese Government. Our government and the US government overwhelmingly agrees with you.

My7 thought exactly. Why do you want a 'nanny' state to do your job for you?

I agree. I guess legislation is what’s helped with smoking. But education has a huge role to play. But our education system is creaking. I see so many kids struggling 🙁

That’s an interesting perspective. Food for thought.

I'm neither young, nor a habitual user! I don't use it personally, just professionally.

My points are made in relation to TT, yes, also wider screen / SM use.

And the legislation around smoking, gambling and alcohol has worked so well, hasn't it? Not a single child or young adult engages in any of those things. Contrary to what I observe in my local park.... Admittedly smoking seems to have reduced. They are all vaping instead. Ban something and you simply make it more desirable. And in terms of technology, the genie is out of the bottle and won't be going back in.... if "it" (whatever it is) isn't on the web, it will be on the dark web. People stop doing things when they choose to, and they will only choose to when the have the ability, wherewithall, and opportunity to choose. Young people are no different in that respect than adults.

Isn't a better question, why do so many people - adults as well - find the internet world so much more attractive that real life? What makes it easier to become "addicted" to such fluff than existing outside the cyber world? Looking around at the future that young people are facing in the UK now, I can hazard a few guesses, and China wouldn't be one of them. Addiction is, and always has been, something that arises out of hopelessness. That may not be the only trigger or cause - but it is a significant one. Addiction is one of the ultimate escape routes.

Sugar aside, those things don’t have the same addictive qualities. And they also don’t have an impact on your ability to concentrate.