NHS treatment poor compared to some overseas countries?

[PSEnny]

I’m on holiday with a family member who developed an infection. This is linked to an ongoing issue but no sign or symptoms of infection before we left. We’re in the Canary Islands. At 8.30 this morning we had to go to a local medical centre. Saw a doctor within minutes of arriving. 30 minutes later the issue had been diagnosed and an injection given which was a combination of antibiotics to kill the infection. Doctor also checked urine. Not by using a dipstick but by putting the sample in an analysis machine. This revealed an additional infection. Over the next 2 days relative needs to go back for daily injections of the antibiotics. We were fully expecting to be given some oral antibiotics (family member has been given these before when the same issue arose). NHS have never checked urine for a potential other infection. We asked the doctor why we hadn’t just been given oral antibiotics. Doctor discussed how the UK gets it wrong in a lot of its treatment, that the injections are the best course of treatment and that the go to over the counter antibiotics wouldn’t have got to the root of the problem. Doctor spent 30 minutes completing a full examination. In the UK you’re lucky to get 5 minutes with a GP. I’m guessing there’s a cost issue in that oral antibiotics are cheaper? And the additional time needed to do a thorough consultation is also costly but if it meant that issues were actually treated properly would this actually save money overall?
This isn’t to bash the NHS more a thought about why the best treatment isn’t offered and why thorough consultations aren’t carried out when other countries can do it?

The NHS is a total and utter mess. There are now so many people trying to access very finite resources, all for "free". As it's not properly funded, it can only be reactive rather than proactive. It uses resources such as interpreters which are incredibly expensive, a cost that most other health services don't have. I think the NHS is trying to be too many things to too many people and as a result is not providing any discernible service to most people. Some people also abuse the system, missing appointments and not thinking of the money this wastes and there is no financial consequence to them for this (as it's all "free"). If the system had endless resources it would be great if dual citizens could get timely NHS treatment. However with a system that is totally broken, I don't think it's unreasonable for these individuals to seek their treatment in the other country where they hold citizenship. Many people will not go to their home country / other country for treatment as there is an upfront cost. I think a token fee should be introduced as many British people don't appreciate or respect things that they feel are "free". I do sadly think the NHS is finished and it is such a shame.

This. It was not designed for today’s society.

really hate people bashing the NHS. And people taking liberties with it.

There’s no silver bullet here to fix it but we need to take a hard look at some of the treatments that are covered, optimising private medical healthcare (more employers should offer this) and better operational and general leadership. Not much then 😂

They were taking the piss there…,your insurance will be paying out big time for something unnecessay

No. The nhs will offer the most cost effective option to fully treat the issue.

private medicine will tell you antibiotic injections are “better” because 7x consultation fees for daily visits add up to much more money from your insurance than 1x consultation fee and a course of oral AB’s.

also preying on human psychology that the more it costs the better it must be.

I'm glad we have the NHS, I was on holiday in the Canaries & had forgotten some of my Zonisamide prescription for my epilepsy.
Luckily I was able to get a private prescription (about 50e) from a local GP there., then found 1 box of a month's supply of Zonisamide for 90e at a chemist!! Here my prescriptions are free anyway as I have epilepsy.
Thank god for the NHS or I would either be unmedicated for epilepsy and for my mental illness or living on the streets.. no insurance companies cover people like me for serious pre existing conditions in countries like the USA for example.
I can't get life insurance or mortgage payment protection insurance here in the uk as the premiums are too high, and have to go to a specialist insurers for Travel Insurance.

we have returned to home eu country for Easter hols and have a whole battery of health checks lined up for a very decent price. As we are resident in UK we obvs no longer qualify for free healthcare in this country but going private here is very reasonable priced (say 1/5th of harley street prices or less) so defo worth it as NHS will not offer any of these checks.
My eu friends in UK do the same.

ps: if you claim on insurance, your premium will go up at next renewal so I wouldn't just leisurely claim on it unless you really need it of course.. even if work pays for it.

Over use of antibiotics leads to resistance. We already have AB resistance in some very nasty diseases.
You only have to watch a US medical series to see how over treatment = profit.

That's not to say the NHS is superior in any way. I'd vote for a modest charge for most things but it's untouchable in that respect.

A few years ago I used E111 when they were valid and broke my ankle in Spain - was in and out with it plastered in just over an hour.
My husband had a hernia op in India, very clean hospital but we had to provide his food - cost £800 and he was in there for 4 days.

Agreed.

Do you know why shingle vaccine isn’t offered routinely?

i’d be interested to know if it’s like Hpv, where it’s only offered to teens because of the likelihood that the older population will already have been naturally exposed.

does the same apply? If enough of the older generation have already had chicken pox then would shingles vaccine be pointless? Could that be why it’s not routine?

if chicken pox vaccines were routinely offered to children would that negate the need for shingles vaccines?

does the us offer it because they also vaccinate against chicken pox so it’s unlikely anyone has a natural immunity?

Because you are paying privately.
You get what you pay for.

That question is answered here: https://www.ox.ac.uk/research/everything-you-need-know-about-chickenpox-and-why-more-countries-don’t-use-vaccine

modelling shows that introduction of a chicken pox vaccine would lead to increased cases of shingles in adults, as the virus disappears from the population adult will not be exposed enough to develop immunity.

so interestingly, chicken pox vaccine for children will increase shingles cases in adults.

The CP (HerpesZoster virus) stays in your body for life and can get reactivated when low/old/stressed.

I know many (including me)

Having CP means you are MORE likely to reactivate the virus. Despite what many think.

It lurks in your spine (I think)

The answer is bureaucracy pure and simple. An emphasis on form filling, tick boxes and clinicians having to justify their actions to non clinicians.
The suggestion that it's underfunding or the Tories is bollox. The NHS gets more money year on year yet has worse outcomes year on year. We now have more funding and more staff post pandemic but the patient outcomes are worse than pre pandemic levels.
It simply doesn't work and never will no matter how much money is pumped into it

In Sweden, where we lived until recently, you have a small charge (~20£)for GP appointments, A&E etc, with a max a year if you have e.g. something chronic. Means people turn up as they will be charged anyway!

There are more people (ageing population) and treatments are more expensive than ever. We also spend less per capita than most other comparable countries. It’s under funded.

You are more likely to get shingles after having chickenpox itself rather than the vaccine.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/vis/vis-statements/varicella.html#:~:text=Talk%20with%20your%20health%20care%20provider%20to%20learn%20more.,after%20medical%20procedures%2C%20including%20vaccination.

This is what “ pay per view “ health care gets you.

see also IV fluids / antibiotics / antisickness meds for self limiting gastroenteritis - hugely common abroad- canaries , turkey etc.

Okay I'll bite. My elderly mother was feeling slightly unwell and unusually tired last Monday. She's 88 and lives alone so we phoned GP for advice. GP came out to see her within the hour, checked her over, took bloods and a urine sample prescribed antibiotics and referred her on to "hospital at home" from the following day. She threw up immediately after taking first antibiotic so we phoned GP who also prescribed an antiemetic. H at h (a Dr and a nurse) came out the following day, ran more tests, checked all her meds in case we needed to stop something temporarily, showed us how to make her more comfortable in bed, gave us a helpline number to phone as first point of contact. Swab came back as COVID. Since then they have been out every day to check on her, have referred her to the physio on their team to help get her back on her feet and have been excellent in every way. Apparently they can do iv fluids and antibiotics etc at home if needed too. Yes the NHS is under huge strain, and yes it's not perfect but it still gets a lot of things right.

We once needed to use health services in mainland Spain after DH had a potentially serious accident at our accommodation. As we weren't on a road (just a track) the emergency services wouldn't come out. The holiday rep had to transport DH to the nearest emergency clinic in their car. Moving DH in this way could potentially have paralysed him but we have no option.
When we arrived at the clinic the rep went to get a wheelchair. The porter appeared at the car door but wouldn't get DH out into the wheelchair until he had seen his EU passport! Eventually he was examined, given a strip of paracetamol and discharged. He'd had a serious fall and been concussed but no xray was done.
Thankfully all was well but it could very easily have gone seriously wrong. We were told that if DH was admitted to the main hospital along the coast I would have to go and care for him overnight as they wouldn't! A bit tricky as we had our 6 year old with us!
I don't think that is an improvement on our NHS.

@kaiadeluded US insurance companies do cover pre-existing conditions. They also can"t charge higher premiums to people with pre-existing conditions or deny them cover.

When you are on insurance, sadly doctors will often sell you anything including things you don't need.

I once saw a private paediatrician (on private health insurance) in the uk for my DD. The doctor prescribed 4 things, none of which my daughter actually needed. An inhaler at a dose so tiny it was pointless, an incredibly expensive probiotic, an expensive swab test of some kind to check for infection, an antiobiotic "just in case" etc

I was sent to get these things at a particular pharmacy close to the drs surgery where i was charged an extortionate cost.

It was an eye opening experience.

By contrast when same DD was actually properly ill she got top notch nhs care. 1 to 1 nursing care in picu & 2 to 1 in hdu.

She got slotted in for a surgery after only a one week wait, another surgery she was on the non urgent list & it was done 10 weeks later. These were both last year so it wasnt ages ago.

The NHS definitely needs improvement BUT, I’m always staggered when I hear about people in other countries just being able to rock up and see a doctor in minutes and have all the tests. I know that NHS staff are overworked and clinics are too full, but in other countries what are they doing all day, just sitting around on the off chance that a patient turns up? It could be seen as inefficient - someone has to pay for this underused capacity.

I’m maybe in the same country as @Borracha. I went for my routine mammogram this week. First you get a breast ultrasound from a nurse, then after a 20 minute wait, a mammogram from a doctor who has already seen your ultrasound. They tell you there and then if it’s all clear or if any follow up was needed. I booked this with my gynae at the clinic a 2 minute walk from my work, and I was seen within 3 days.

I’ve also lived in the Far East and Southern Europe and received excellent medical care.

All you people who think the NHS is the gold standard are deluded.