to think many politicians who claim to be Christians and who say this is a Christian country really aren't Christians and would criticise the teachings of Jesus

[cakeorwine]

Lee Anderson saying this is a Christian country and complaining about some councils celebrating Ramada with lights.

"But let’s turn our attention back to traditional values for a second. The last time I checked Britain is a Christian country, it is enshrined in our law. So why is it that one of the most important religious festivals in the country is not proudly celebrated in the nation’s capital? Just like Labour, the Tories also refuse to stand up for Christian values it seems. Their candidate for the Westminster constituency said the lights were to be “welcomed” before paying trivial lip service to the promotion of other religions and their holy days. Under successive Tory governments British culture, identity, and values have ebbed away, and the rate at which they are doing so seems to be rapidly increasing.
Let me be clear, this isn’t an attack on Islam or any other religion. I firmly and absolutely respect the rights of individuals to celebrate their faith, but who in the establishment is standing up for the Christian values that made our country so great and revered across the globe? Can you honestly believe that if the shoe were on the other foot, a Muslim country would decorate its capital city with Easter decorations during Ramadan?"

'UK is Christian – it's time to demand our country back' | Express Comment | Comment | Express.co.uk

Farage saying that he has stopped going to church because of what someone said

"Mr Farage said: "I won't go to my local church, I won't go. I am christened and confirmed in the Church of England, all my family on both sides have been Church of England.
"I used to believe in it, I used to attend, not every Sunday but regularly during the year, I will not go. It is hopeless, they've given up, they've surrendered."
Nigel Farage reveals why he has stopped going to church: 'It is hopeless!' | Politics | News | Express.co.uk

I firmly believe that these two, as well as other politicians who claim to be Christian and to believe in Christian values would be the first to have Jesus locked up for his views. They would not understand the story of the Good Samaritan.

I say this as someone who is not a Christian but who can see what Jesus was trying to say about helping others and particular values.

I have contempt for someone who claims to be a Christian but seems to forget the key teachings of Jesus.

Love thy neighbour

The Good Samaritan
Forgiveness
Not judging others
Love thy enemy

Those came from a quick Google search - but as someone who had a lot of Bible stories when young, it's my basic knowledge of the parables Jesus discussed

What Are The Core Teachings of Jesus | Christian.net

I wonder what Anderson and Farage make of the Sermon on the Mount

Matthew 5-7 ESV - The Sermon on the Mount - Seeing the - Bible Gateway

No I think we should keep embracing secular values. We should have more abortions(270k not enough) and we should continue to have kids and not put them first because homemaker and being a stay at home mother are such worthless activities. In fact, why not just give the kids to the state to raise? By the way all Christians I know would equally be happy for the man to stay at home to raise the children.

So you and the OP seem to disagree on whether those are Christian values or not, which was really my point. We don't agree on what Christian values are. Some would say the things I suggested are not Christian values, while others would say of course they're Christian values - honoring all life, sticking to the 'God ordained plan' of men and women only in relationship with each other, and honoring the family.
Others would say we should be all about freedom to choose, being allowed to be fully who you are in God, and women should be allowed to use all their intelligence and talents in all areas of life.
There are pros and cons to each viewpoint, but when the OP says that politicians are not living up to or standing up for 'Christian values' - my question would be, 'Which Christian values?' What do you define as a Christian value?

So you and the OP seem to disagree on whether those are Christian values or not, which was really my point. We don't agree on what Christian values are. Some would say the things I suggested are not Christian values, while others would say of course they're Christian values - honoring all life, sticking to the 'God ordained plan' of men and women only in relationship with each other, and honoring the family.
Others would say we should be all about freedom to choose, being allowed to be fully who you are in God, and women should be allowed to use all their intelligence and talents in all areas of life.
There are pros and cons to each viewpoint, but when the OP says that politicians are not living up to or standing up for 'Christian values' - my question would be, 'Which Christian values?' What do you define as a*. There is no confusion on the values of Christianity. They emanate from 10 commandments and the teachings of Jesus. The bible is clear on homosexuality, on marriage between man and woman and on the sanctity of life.

Those core moral issues are not debatable. As far as I'm aware, it isn't sinful for a women to go out to work. I'm not sure why you think women using their talent or
Intelligence is not christioan values.

Demonising immigrants and foreigners are a
not core Christian values! Or blaming poor people for their poverty because they cannot make meals for 30p a portion.

They are utter fuckwits and if I was in charge I’d put them through a giant mincer. I don’t care if I go to hell for it 😂😂😂

Remind me what jesus himself said about any of those things?

The op was about the teachings of Jesus. I think this "Christian values" is exactly the problem - these values were mostly not from Jesus yet people would rather judge one another in a Pharisee like way rather than show love, humility, kindness etc . What about the camel passing through the eye of the needle. That one is very conveniently forgotten by people who would rather concern themselves with other people's sex lives than look after the poor.

What about the camel and the needle? That's about deeds. And he who is last shall be first etc. Jesus himself is pretty keen on deeds. I don't mean judging others but what you actually do yourself. There are lots of parables that tell people how they should be behaving. He made it quite clear that it's not good enough to be all talk and no action!

Jesus corrected and contradicted the old testament e.g. forgiveness rather than vengeance etc. I think he was really presenting something very different to the OT, but Christians still read and believe the OT. I think there's a difference between Christians, who follow the OT, and followers of Christ who follow only Christ's teachings. Given how much Jesus seemed to disagree with tradition and the old ways, I wonder if Christians are making a mistake (theologically) in trying to practise both teachings.

I went to a Good Friday RC service today. Thought you might be interested to know that the priest said a blessing for all atheists😀

The old testament is pretty barbaric. I mean Noah's ark... Drowning the entire population of the earth except a single family. The plague of Egypt that was killing all the first born sons. It was all about the tribe of Israel being god's special people and hang everyone else. It is very different to the teaching of Jesus which is more or less the complete opposite. None of it makes any sense!

According to Luke, Jesus said his disciples must hate their families. He's here to bring the sword not peace.

In mark it sounds like he thinks children who do not honour their parents should be killed.

Let the dead bury the dead - to someone burying their loved one. In Matthew??

Called a woman who came to him for help a dog and said he was only here to help the people of Israel. He did help after she agreed she was a dog and said something about scraps. Matthew again.

He was ok with slavery, stoning women to death etc. said he wasn't here to change laws.

The old testament portrays god as a fucking psychopath but there's lots of disturbing shit in the new testament too and that was written to push a nicer, kinder more appealing religion!

Who cares, if anyone thinks this is a “christian” country when I think something like 5% of people go to church then they’re kidding themselves. If anyone judges a politician by which imaginary being in the sky they talk then they might want to rethink that.

Oh dear, this thread ended up being pretty topical in my neck of the woods.

Absolutely, good deeds should flow as work as the spirit! Good deeds don't save you though - Jesus did that and the doctrine of grace is the main doctrines of Christianity. You are saved by grace alone, through faith alone in christ alone! If you have salvation you should and would be repenting of your sins, turning away from them and you'll be sanctified. This will bring change, you'll bare the fruit of the spirit which through that you should see change - not just talk but action, but ultimately that isn't what saves you. So the good, kind person who doesn't have faith in Jesus realistically wouldn't be classed as a Christian. Where as the person who has faith, and is repentant of their sin - it might take years and years to see change through that repentance but if the faith and repentance is there - that makes them a Christian!

@IncompleteSenten I think the idea expressed in the translation 'hate' is that nothing can be more important than following teachings, if someone wanted to be a disciple.

Jesus was citing Moses when he talked of honouring parents, and went on to say that if the law stipulated death for dishonouring parents, what about those who did not support parents in old age. I think this passage is generally pointing out inconsistencies in Pharisee practice.

I think I'll have a look for the other passages you mention tomorrow, as it is interesting. They sound disturbing, but the context (e.g. was he actually quoting/criticising traditions etc.) makes it clearer.

Oh dear, you're just taking things out of context and there are issues with translation from Aramaic to Greek to English. Jesus did say you must hate your families, he said your mission with me is a priority.

The comment of the not spreading peace and the sword was not about waging war. He said because you believe in me, there will be conflict not that Christian's should start wars. He meant you will persecuted, it will set you against your brothers.

The dog cooment. The woman was a non Jew, in those days Jews believed just being on her presence would make them unclean. Jesus tells her that he is here to deal with Israelites as a priority but by calling her a dog (which all his audience including his deciples would have said in those days) he was testing the woman's faith in him and then showing his followers that even the unclean can enter Gods kingdom. This was totally contrary to the beliefs of the Jews:

Jesus didn't condone slavery etc. Jesus was not sent to save the Jews from the romans or the slaves from their master. He was sent to save our souls so that we can enter heaven. That is the promised land. We were given free will, all sorts of terrible stuff happens on earth but God won't step in by sending floods, saving us from the ills of others and ours, he is letting us have our time but we can choose to follow Jesus so we can eternal life on his presence. So even when we humans are suffering because we are enslaved, treated terribly by others we know (if you have faith) that we can enter the kingdom of God.

No Farage and Lee do not espouse Christian values.
The issue is immigration. I think we should help as many people as we can but people have concerns with the numbers and how we can absorb so many in such a short time. There is also a genuine concern the difference in culture and the speed at whic the host nations are changing because of this. Add significant rise in crime and the fact that infrastructure is crumbling and all our institutions are on the knees you can see why people are worried. Yet, we can't seem to have a sensible and grown up discussion on this subject. You're either a woke or a far right nazi.

I think most Christians would fail it.

Theres posters on here who talk about their faith a lot but multiple posts show they’re hypocrites with very little compassion or tolerance for anyone. They’re anti abortion, life starts at conception people, but no shits given on threads about a very young child in a bad situation. A few years earlier they’d have been doing all they could to make the mother keep the child whilst in the womb, but now he’s here aged 4 needing help, they couldn’t give a fuck. It makes me sick.

I was brought up in Christian community, the people sure didn’t show many Christian values day to day. They were Christian on Sunday mornings, not the rest of the week. In that community there was probably a handful that consistently displayed Christian behaviour and I respected them for that.

Lee Anderson and Nigel Farrage are complete both terrible people.

Except it's not.
Many ex-xtians know as much about xtianity as so called xtians, and fully entitled to call it out for what it is - a tool designed to control and create dependency, which works equally well on the weak, or strong.

We should kerp having access to safe abortion and encourage choice.
We should support mothers who work outside the home (through choice or necessity).
We should kerp religion out of health and social care.

Nothing is sinful because sin is a manufactured concept.

Xtians often do that in a sort of passive aggressive way, claiming it's out of love. It's not, it's out of trying to indoctrinate and also sometimes their own ego.
No thanks.